[WIP] The "Just Follow Orders!" Mod

[rudewarrior]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I'm assuming from your descriptions that this only affects standing orders, and the regular radio messages will be unchanged?

The plan is to write up a series of radio log entries that you will cut and paste into your radio log. These messages will all start with something like "JFO! Mod" to let you know that you are getting some sort of update to the orders in your Kaleun's log. The text won't necessarily be the historic text, but they will succinctly communicate current updates to your orders. This way you will have an "official" order that (assuming you want to play this way) you will have to comply with.

This way you can still keep your original messages from the Radio Log Expanded Mod if you like. So the historically accurate transmission will be there, but you will also get an independent JFO! update message that explicitly lays out the orders/updates in more exact language.

I have noticed there are some conflicts that I have found for certain dates using my sources versus message dates in the RLE mod, so we will be open to anyone who can offer historical corrections provided they can also offer a source. I am very confident in the resources we have used to assemble this info. Unfortunately, I am also confident that the modders who developed the RLE mod had good sources, too. I am a little worried that there may be some corrections that might need to be made. However, I will always be happy to as long as I can reconcile it with some sort of source.

Either way, I like it! It gets the Sailor Steve Seal of Approval!

Thank you! We are sincerely happy that this is generating interest. As we dug further and further, we kept finding information that was really relevant to how Kaleun's were forced to act during certain parts of the war, and with the development of h.sie's wonderful SH3.exe mod, it really seemed that these conditions were a necessary addition that was really missing from the game.

I'm hoping that h.sie might return to working on his wonderful mod some more. I have an idea that I would like to discuss with him that I think would make his torpedo crisis/failure aspect to the mod even more accurate and complete. Unfortunately, I only know coding theory, so I don't know if it would even work, let alone how much work it would be for him. Based on the research I have done for this mod, it would be a simplistic idea, but just don't know how simply it can be implemented, if at all.

The reason for this is that, during a large part of the war, the Germans were generally using a depth setting of 4 meters. With h.sie's mod, during 15m/s winds, this results in a lot of torpedo failures. Sometimes so much so that while "Just Following Orders!" I actually expended all of my ordinance on a lone cargo ship with no hits! I usually just go home, as getting zero tonnage on a patrol sometimes did happen (I just remind myself that getting tonnage on every patrol is probably not very realistic ) If he could successfully implement my idea, then we might be able to prevent this situation, while being even more historically accurate with torpedo failures! Then again this is a mod designed very specifically for people who want to make it harder on themselves anyway.

[Sailor Steve]

Paste the orders into the existing file? Cool! I like SH3 Gen, but I only ever use it at the beginning of a patrol to see what might be available around my assigned grid, and even then I keep the settings turned way down. I think I'll like this better.

[rudewarrior]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I like SH3 Gen, but I only ever use it at the beginning of a patrol to see what might be available around my assigned grid, and even then I keep the settings turned way down. I think I'll like this better.

I still use SH3 Gen, too, and I love it! However, due to mods that I use (or maybe Windows 7, I am always willing to blame Microsoft) it will plot icebergs in the Arachon Bay on the southern part of the west coast of France!

[Parkera]

This sounds like an excellant mod and cant wait. I also use SH3gen at the beginning of patrols, for a real like feel.

[rudewarrior]

Originally Posted by Parkera

This sounds like an excellant mod and cant wait. I also use SH3gen at the beginning of patrols, for a real like feel.

I don't know if our program will be able to work with SH3 Gen. Andqui would be best to answer that, but the impression I am getting is that he won't be programming it so that they can work together.

It depends on what he wants to do, since he is doing all the coding.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by rudewarrior

I don't know if our program will be able to work with SH3 Gen.

Process.Start method (if you're programming in C#)

[mikey117us]

like this standing order for example?
http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUOrder302.htm
and this? http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUOrder43.htm
a great companion to the standing orders and operational orders is this!
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/uboat/index.htm the latter was ObLt. Jobst's submarine commanders handbook from U-2326 a Type XXIII surrendered may 14, 1945 Dundee, Scotland and was very much still in use up to the end of the war. And standing orders superseded dictum in this manual as lessons were learned and re-learned.

[rudewarrior]

Originally Posted by mikey117us

like this standing order for example?
http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUOrder302.htm
and this? http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUOrder43.htm
a great companion to the standing orders and operational orders is this!
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/uboat/index.htm the latter was ObLt. Jobst's submarine commanders handbook from U-2326 a Type XXIII surrendered may 14, 1945 Dundee, Scotland and was very much still in use up to the end of the war. And standing orders superseded dictum in this manual as lessons were learned and re-learned.

Each of these resources (and more!) were consulted.

[rudewarrior]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Process.Start method (if you're programming in C#)

We are using Java, whatever language that is. Andqui is the programmer. I am a physicist/researcher, so I just dig up info and give it to him. The way physicists work is we figure out exactly what we need to solve a problem then move on. So since I have never used Java to get any of the devices that support my MFM running, then I don't know anything about it. But if you need me to work in Matlab in order to give you an explanation about why a book behaves the way it does when you throw it in the air, well I'm all over that.

[andqui]

I'm afraid calling me a programmer is flattering me a bit... I don't do it professionally, and I'm using Java because it's the only programming language I can reliably and intuitively use at the moment, and I haven't really used it except to solve various small problems and mine for data in a long file or parse text. That said, the program consists of a self-contained .jar file which can be dropped into the patrol folder and run, with a functional interface and the like, so it should be very intuitive and easy to use. Also, the program is simply a means of conveying the orders into the log, so you won't have to deal with it much besides firing it up, picking some options, and then running and closing it.

[drakkhen20]

imo, i do feel that this would totally add to the imerrsion of the game. the only thing i dont feel is nice is the way you explained of exiting the game and reloading everytime you play with this mod. being that it is a wip i am aware that this could change but even doing this with sh3 commander can be annoying sometimes because of loading times and such. defintly a nice touch for the sh3 players though. is this mod going to be compatible with other "super" mods such as LSH3 5.1,GWX,WAC4.1? or maybe you could make files to incorperate into thier mods with out using SH3 com. hmm well it will be a good mod none the less so good luck and cant wait to see it in the game.

[Sailor Steve]

This mod, like SH3Gen, takes a 'snapshot' of the game at the time it is run. As I understand it, it can't actually do anything inside the game, so the 'snapshot' is of a single point in time.

SH3Gen works perfectly with every supermod I've tried, so I don't see why this one wouldn't as well.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by andqui

I'm afraid calling me a programmer is flattering me a bit... I don't do it professionally, and I'm using Java because it's the only programming language I can reliably and intuitively use at the moment, and I haven't really used it except to solve various small problems and mine for data in a long file or parse text. That said, the program consists of a self-contained .jar file which can be dropped into the patrol folder and run, with a functional interface and the like, so it should be very intuitive and easy to use. Also, the program is simply a means of conveying the orders into the log, so you won't have to deal with it much besides firing it up, picking some options, and then running and closing it.

Java is geared more towards web development and web based stuff. It finds uses in general apps but that is more the exception than the norm. Have you looked into IronPython? IronPython is Python but with the ability to use the .NET framework. Very powerful language compared to Java and it is also a dynamic language. If you know Java you'll pick up Python real fast. With IronPython you'll be able to call the Process.Start method and spawn other apps from yours very simply. You'll also be able to create window's Forms. You can also develop with IronPython in Visual Studio - makes things much easier

[andqui]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Java is geared more towards web development and web based stuff. It finds uses in general apps but that is more the exception than the norm. Have you looked into IronPython? IronPython is Python but with the ability to use the .NET framework. Very powerful language compared to Java and it is also a dynamic language. If you know Java you'll pick up Python real fast. With IronPython you'll be able to call the Process.Start method and spawn other apps from yours very simply. You'll also be able to create window's Forms. You can also develop with IronPython in Visual Studio - makes things much easier

Thanks, I'll look into it.

[Graf Paper]

Something to bear in mind is the approach to "realism" that various super-mods have in their designs.

For example, GWX adheres to the idea that no sensible kaleun would ever shoot it out with an airplane. To enforce this philosophy, aircraft were made more resistant to damage and given special ammo that causes roughly 4 times the damage over stock SH3 ammo. This makes it possible for an airplane in GWX to severely damage or even sink your u-boat with just its guns alone, nevermind bombs or depth-charges. As such, any attempt to "follow orders" and engage aircraft in GWX is suicidal, at best.

I say this not as a criticism of their work , but simple fact to consider when creating your mod. So please let everyone save any debate over the choices that mod teams make. They all have their reasons, both technical and otherwise. It's just that some features of these mods will affect implementing certain parts of "Just Follow Orders".