Falklands 1982 vs 2012

[Sailor Steve]

'Faith', 'Hope' and 'Charity' were indeed Sea Gladiators, but they were also legend. Apparently there were at least six of them at the beginning of the campaign, and there were also Hurricanes. By the end of 1942 there had been more than 700 aircraft defending Malta, including the latest Spitfires.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Malta

[soopaman2]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Whatever happened to the Monroe Doctrine? NO EUROPEAN CONTROL IN THIS HEMISPHERE!

Definitely just kidding, but it is an interesting question.

You are referring to Manifest Destiny?

I believe that only applied to continental US (what we call the lower 48)

at that time France, Spain and England held claims in the N American new world.

An excuse to whack indians. But I digress.
South America has always been an interesting location, due to the attention given to them, and how much they hate us.

The Mexican cartels have more power than the USA in south America, than the gringos do.

MS13 gang. worth a googling.

[Stealhead]

The Monroe Doctrine doctrine was the ultimate expression of Manifest Destiny which applied to what we consider today to be North America of which a large portion was under the control of Mexico many people seem to forget this fact for some reason.

Ever since it was put fourth in 1823 we have more or less followed it to this day
most Latin American nations are safely in the United Sates pocket and that is how we like it Venezuela is just an annoying blister like Cuba.The US says jump almost every Latin American leader says "How high senior?".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

Why do you think they invaded Panama back in 1989? They wanted to rid of Manuel Noriega not because he was involved in drugs they could have cared less but because he was going to allow the next major refurbishing project on the Panama Canal go to a none US firm Manuel Noriega was not going to play by our rules.


MS13 is not a Mexican gang it originated in El Salvador and is mostly made up of El Salvadorians they and Mexican gangs are huge rivals they hate each other the Mexican cartels deal with whoever controls the turf which is usually MS13 because they are the most violent and the Mexican cartels will employ Spanish speaking gangs though most of that "work" is in Mexico they go on a vacation so to speak MS13 goes where they can make money.

Actually most Latin Americans like or a are neutral towards Americans in my experience.The Cartels have power in Mexico and some parts of Central America the South is another Story all together.If you are in Columbia it is either the Colombian Government or FARC depending on what part of the country you are in same applies to most other nations to some degree.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Eagle used to be in my sig, listing after being hit. She still had some aircraft on board but some were in the air.

[soopaman2]

No matter the origin of MS13, they are still working for the cartels, in the southwest USA

Yes I am aware of the origins. My older brother( in law) is a prison guard in Northern state prison in NJ. Where they isolate gang scum like this.

The only way to stop this, is to stop lockin up the joint smoker, and instead locking up the crack dealer.


Cartels don't bother with pot, when coca and meth is so much more profitable.


3 years for smoking a joint, or corrupting an entire population with crack cocaine. sad state of affairs that one is as bad as the other.
Both recieve similar felony sentences in NJ. 3 flat minimum. Which is 9-13 months in prison, and the rest on parole.

(manslaughter convictions get lighter sentences than drugs in some cases)

[Oberon]

Operation Excess was one of the first supply runs to Malta IIRC, which brought the Hurricanes to Malta. I think there were a couple of Hurris there but the public knew Faith, Hope and Charity the most.
Swordfishes from 815 Squadron were on Lusty when she ran on Excess after being transferred from Courageous after she went down. In fact, the Swordfishes were just landing when the first Stuka pounced on her and dropped a bomb through the deck lift into the hangar. Turned the metal curtains below into death-traps.

[CaptainHaplo]

Argentina would be idiotic to try and take the Falklands. England doesn't need a carrier to "retake" the island (assuming it would be lost). Rest assured, the Brits love the TLAM, and they have the ability to put forces ashore from Trafalger/Astute class subs. The use of same would also devestate the Argentinian navy if it tried to blockade the island.

Other countries getting involved? Not likely. Risking a full on firefight with a NATO member in what would amount to the "backyard" of the US would be risking an awful lot on the cowardice of the US President. While 2 years ago it might have been possible, doing so in an election year where foreign policy is a major issue would just embolden the current president to act to shore up his image.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Rest assured, the Brits love the TLAM...

And I love them.

After all they gave me Dr. Who and Red Dwarf.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

No matter the origin of MS13, they are still working for the cartels, in the southwest USA

Yes I am aware of the origins. My older brother( in law) is a prison guard in Northern state prison in NJ. Where they isolate gang scum like this.

The only way to stop this, is to stop lockin up the joint smoker, and instead locking up the crack dealer.


Cartels don't bother with pot, when coca and meth is so much more profitable.


3 years for smoking a joint, or corrupting an entire population with crack cocaine. sad state of affairs that one is as bad as the other.
Both recieve similar felony sentences in NJ. 3 flat minimum. Which is 9-13 months in prison, and the rest on parole.

(manslaughter convictions get lighter sentences than drugs in some cases)

What makes you think that the cartels do not also smuggle pot? Because if you do you are highly misinformed you need to take a look at this justice department chart look at Marijuana in 2009 1,493,096 kilos (that is more than any other drug) was confiscated that is a lot of joints.Talk to Border Patrol agent they have spent many night chasing down mules carrying huge bails of weed on their backs their employer: McDonalds .

Locking up every coke user is unfair when the pot smoker is also supporting the same people.

The Mexican cartels are after money they do not care what they are trafficking.

The only real cure to the problem is to admit that many Americans have a drug problem and treat that not arrest drug dealers and not users who are not gong to stop while in jail they will just pay even more to get their fix.We will never stop the supply because the demand is huge arrest one dealer and another will fill his shoes because the demand is not going anywhere in fact it only goes up while the old guy is gone and vacuum not yet filled.


In my opinion it is hard to say what the US might do if the UK and Argentina went at it over the Falklands a lot of factors in play there the US wants to maintain its primacy in South America siding with the UK might hurt that.

I think jimbuna said in another thread that it should be up to the residents of the Falklands(not the UK military troops there they out number the populace something like 5 to 1 I heard) who they want to be a part of.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

You are referring to Manifest Destiny?

No.

I believe that only applied to continental US (what we call the lower 48)

You believe wrongly. The paper specifically said the the US would step in to challenge any new European colonization anywhere in the Western Hemispher.

at that time France, Spain and England held claims in the N American new world.

Yes they did, and this part of the Wiki article answered my question:

Doctrine noted that the United States would neither interfere with existing European colonies...

An excuse to whack indians. But I digress.

And you digress in a bad direction. The Monroe Doctrine had nothing to do with the indians either.

[Marcantilan]

Argentina does not have the military capacity to retake the islands from UK.

UK does not have the military capacity to retake the islands from Argentina.

The military status quo will remain.

[Nicolas]

I live 45 km away from Buenos Aires, across the river. Argentina was in a military dictactorship at that time, kidnaps, censorship, soldiers in the streets, nights at home, etc. Now in democracy with a woman being president. They sure learned something from that war, and they do not have the military power and the people way of thinking is different now, the economy is more important than this. They are claiming the islands 'back', they are trying to put pressure, but in my opinion not even thinking to try an invasion or agression.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Marcantilan

UK does not have the military capacity to retake the islands from Argentina.

I heard on the radio some high ranking officer said the Falklands would fall if the airstrip was taken.


Personally this tit for tat exchange is a load of pigs swill on both sides.

[Jimbuna]

Hate to dissapoint but I doubt there will be any battle over the Falklands.

Britain is better prepared this time and having at least one sub on staion at all times means the Argentinians would have the same problem Hitler faced...getting across the pond.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Hate to dissapoint but I doubt there will be any battle over the Falklands.

Britain is better prepared this time and having at least one sub on staion at all times means the Argentinians would have the same problem Hitler faced...getting across the pond.

That was all bluff, of course it came to light after the war.

Both sides have acted like big baby's throwing there toys at each other. I can not comment on the Argentinian politicians but I can on ours, bunch of jerks the lot of them. Just watch Prime Ministers question time, just like kindergarten for spoiled little brats.