How the ATF and DOJ violated federal law.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by August

Now there might not have been any criminal intent in Fast and Furious but it sure seems like there was criminal negligence and at the top of the responsibility list is Eric Holder by definition as well as circumstance.

I would agree with this. Perhaps the negligence is something that can be prosecuted.

[Rockstar]

That agent who told thee shop owner it was ok to let the guns go should be sent to prison as should his supervisor. What the pheck did these people think was going to happen to those firearms? Wait they didn't think did they

[Sailor Steve]

If you can't say it without an expletive, even a fake one, don't say it at all.

[1480]

http://oversight.house.gov/images/st...uments/4-7.pdf

Keep in mind point 1 when you read point 8. This is actual government documents, though heavily redacted throughout.

http://oversight.house.gov/images/st...ATF_Report.pdf

This is not from a conservative blog, this is actually the official report form the House oversight committee of what has occurred, not what was speculated of what might have occurred. If you think it's fine that the top law enforcement office in the United States has been proven to have lied on paper when answering inquiries from the committee that is investigating what had happened, than there will be nothing to sway you.

http://readthestimulus.org/hr1_final.pdf

Page 16, 3rd paragraph, 10 million of stimulus money strictly for Gun Runner.


[QUOTE] Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner, DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion. DHS is making similar commitments, as Secretary Napolitano will detail.[/QUOTE


Attorney General Eric Holder at the Mexico/United States Arms Trafficking Conference

CUERNAVACA, MEXICO ~ Thursday, April 2, 2009

http://www.justice.gov/ag/speeches/2...ch-090402.html


Eric Holder in 03 May 2011 under oath, stated to the committee during their
questioning about when he learned of "fast and furious":

“I’m not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks”

When in fact CBS discovered documents that are contrary to what he claimed under oath.




Yes, he changed his story to "a couple of months", under oath again. 08 DEC 2011 will be very interesting indeed.

[yubba]

Very inter rest tingggg, I vonder if he gets promoted too Baron, so it would be Eric Von Holdder, thenn ?????? papers pleazzzzz

[1480]

Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, is investigating Fast and Furious, as well as the alleged use of the case to advance gun regulations. "There's plenty of evidence showing that this administration planned to use the tragedies of Fast and Furious as rationale to further their goals of a long gun reporting requirement. But, we've learned from our investigation that reporting multiple long gun sales would do nothing to stop the flow of firearms to known straw purchasers because many Federal Firearms Dealers are already voluntarily reporting suspicious transactions. It's pretty clear that the problem isn't lack of burdensome reporting requirements."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...n-regulations/

[1480]

"Nobody at the Justice Department has lied," Holder insisted.


When Sensenbrenner pressed Holder on the distinction between lying and misleading Congress, Holder said it was a matter of a person's "state of mind."


Holder said that when DOJ officials provided inaccurate information to Congress, they didn't know at the time that it was inaccurate.

http://campaign2012.washingtonexamin...as-lied/244706

Rep. James Sensenbrenner asked Holder: "Tell me what's the difference between lying and misleading Congress, in this context?"


Holder's response, "Well, if you want to have this legal conversation, it all has to do with your state of mind and whether or not you had the requisite intent to come up with something that would be considered perjury or a lie," Holder said. "The information that was provided by the February 4th letter was gleaned by the people who drafted the letter after they interacted with people who they thought were in the best position to have the information."

Rep. Darrell Issa on Eric Holder:

"We have a paper trail of so many people knowing that the only way the attorney general didn't know is he made sure he didn't want to know." "But if you don't want to know something of this sort then you shouldn't have the job he has. And ultimately one of the questions is, if he didn't know, is he that inept that he is dangerous to have as the attorney general, and that is for the president to decide."

New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress.


The documents came from the head of the National Drug Intelligence Center and Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer.


Two Justice Department officials mulled it over in an email exchange Oct. 18, 2010."It's a tricky case given the number of guns that have walked but is a significant set of prosecutions" says Jason Weinstein, Deputy Assistant Attorney General of the Criminal Division. Deputy Chief of the National Gang Unit James Trusty replies"I'm not sure how much grief we get for "guns walking." It may be more like, "Finally they're going after people who sent guns down there."


The Justice Department told CBS News that the officials in those emails were talking about a different case started before Eric Holder became Attorney General. And tonight they tell CBS News, Holder misunderstood that question from the committee " he did know about Fast and Furious , just not the details."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...-10391695.html



Does anyone still believe that an operation of this magnitude which involved arming a criminal drug cartel, in another sovereign nation, did not have clearance from the top....

[Arlo]

Cool indian head profile sig thingie.

[1480]

Originally Posted by Arlo

Cool indian head profile sig thingie.

http://blackhawks.nhl.com/

Thanks.

[Takeda Shingen]

It is a cool sig, but you can't possibly be throwing the towel in on the 7-5 Bears.

[1480]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

It is a cool sig, but you can't possibly be throwing the towel in on the 7-5 Bears.

Did you see the game against KC?

As to your Eagles, Urlacher has had Vick's number every time they played together.


What do you think the chances are of your Broad Street bullies this season?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by 1480

Did you see the game against KC?

As to your Eagles, Urlacher has had Vick's number every time they played together.


What do you think the chances are of your Broad Street bullies this season?

I wasn't trying to talk smack, Da Bears are legitimately good this year. My Eagles are a disgrace and Andy Reid must go.

Honestly, I am not sure about the BSBs. Not much of a hockey fan. But, knowing the reputation of Philly sports, I will bet that the Flyers won't go far at all.

[August]

Originally Posted by 1480

FDoes anyone still believe that an operation of this magnitude which involved arming a criminal drug cartel, in another sovereign nation, did not have clearance from the top....

Exactly. It's like a military offensive planned and managed by sergeants with the commanding General claiming that he didn't know what they were up to. He's either lying or the worst general ever.

Criminal negligence, death and injury resulting, I believe is the term.

[magic452]

This guy should be held responsible because the company he lead has gone bankrupt and people lost 1.2 billion dollars.
He claims that he can't know everything that goes on in a large company.





But according to some this guy is completely innocent because he headed a "company" that cost the lives of 1 American and most likely 100 or so Mexicans.
He claims that he didn't know what was going on in such a large "company"



One is a "businessman?" and the other a politician
One is a slim ball and the other is "our guy".

They were both testifying this week.
Somehow there seems to be a double standard here.

Magic

Exactly. It's like a military offensive planned and managed by sergeants with the commanding General claiming that he didn't know what they were up to. He's either lying or the worst general ever.

Surely if the sergeants had planned it the operation would have worked better