Florida teen detained by TSA for design on her purse

[1480]

As much as I am going to be flamed for this, you have no constitutional right to fly on a plane. It comes down to "private property" issues. My house my rules and in this case, federal laws and guidelines. If you want to fly on a plane anywhere in the world (you should see how they treat round eyes in Chinese airports) , you give up your 4th amendment right to search and seizure.

If you want to get into how the government should or should not regulate air travel is a completely different discussion.

[1480]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

don't you think that if that is your recommended policy, they should have stated somewhere that no images of weapons should be allowed on planes either?...just saying

You can bring firearms on a plane, as long as it is declared, in a locked suitcase that is checked in. Carry-on no. Shucks, look at the restrictions on toiletries, does it surprise you that a little common sense would have told you not to bring that particular purse......

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by 1480

As much as I am going to be flamed for this

Shouldn't be any flaming because that is against the forum rules...good honest debate and I personally find this thread interesting.

The TSA may have overreacted but the individual may have been better advised to carry an item with a different logo considering the location.

Just my two cents.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by 1480

As much as I hope I am going to be flamed for this

Fixed.

you have no constitutional right to fly on a plane.

Ninth Amendment.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

You have the right to do anything you want, as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's right to do the same.

It comes down to "private property" issues. My house my rules and in this case, federal laws and guidelines.

On the one hand, it's the airlines' house and rules. As a private concern they do have the right to refuse service to anyone, as the Constitution only applies to the Federal Government.

On the other hand, we make laws to protect ourselves from each other, and only the Federal Government is big enough to protect us all in this case. In these modern times something like TSA is, like law, taxes and government in general, is a necessary evil. That said, it is indeed necessary, and we all pay the price.

If you want to fly on a plane anywhere in the world (you should see how they treat round eyes in Chinese airports) , you give up your 4th amendment right to search and seizure.

Comparing experiences here with experiences elsewhere is, to my mind, is in this case irrelevant. Are you saying that we should be grateful that our intrusive system is not as bad as theirs? I am, but I shouldn't have to be.

Saying the girl should have known better is just like saying she shouldn't have dressed provocatively if she didn't want to be raped. While true, it's still commenting on something that shouldn't be. A one-minute examination of the purse would have told the officials everything they needed to know.

[nikimcbee]

All I needed to see was:
Florida

Teen

TSA


That's all you really need to know, the story just writes itself at that point.

[nikimcbee]

Shouldn't be any flaming because that is against the forum rules...good honest debate and I personally find this thread interesting.

okay, I'll do it.

Damn bears fan!

(proceeds to throw bottle at Misha, but hits Steed instead, then quietly slips out of thread.)

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

okay, I'll do it.

Damn bears fan!

(proceeds to throw bottle at Misha, but hits Steed instead, then quietly slips out of thread.)

Back in ya kennel...bonny lad

Comparing experiences here with experiences elsewhere is, to my mind, is in this case irrelevant.

Comparing them with US experiences since sept 11th would be relevant, so would travel between here and the UK during the sillyness, so would flying on ElAl for decades, or for that matter flying on any of the other middle eastern airlines.

[Krauter]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

The TSA may have overreacted but the individual may have been better advised to carry an item with a different logo considering the location.

Just my two cents.

However, the issue I find here is that she stated she had no previous issues while flying to her destination with the same purse. If it wasn't an issue going there why should it be coming back?

However, the issue I find here is that she stated she had no previous issues while flying to her destination with the same purse.

Thats just like saying to a traffic cop " but you didn't pull me last time I was a ton up on this road"

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Krauter

However, the issue I find here is that she stated she had no previous issues while flying to her destination with the same purse. If it wasn't an issue going there why should it be coming back?

Different staff, different levels of observation skills, different number of people in the immediate vicinity, different distractions...any number of things I suppose.

[soopaman2]

So I will ask, how far is acceptable?

Pop a finger into your wife because she might be hiding something "in there"

Don't worry it is in the name of national security. All the searchers are making a sound 9$ an hour , it is ok. Well trained in modern America means underpaid.

Why do other countries (excepting Israel) do so well without dystopian rules to air travel?

Orwell would crap his pants at what we tolerate today, But then again in the end, even Winston Smith screamed genuine anger at the telescreen.

I guess we are all just brainwashed. Sorry...Not we.
You
I see what this is.
Except this time, we are all the "Juden"

So give your papers to the ex con working behind the TSA desk and let him feel your families assorted privated parts. If you tape them moaning in pleasure then you are guilty of a crime.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Comparing them with US experiences since sept 11th would be relevant, so would travel between here and the UK during the sillyness, so would flying on ElAl for decades, or for that matter flying on any of the other middle eastern airlines.

Because of your childish penchant for deleting the person you're quoting, I had to go make sure it was me.

And you're wrong. Overreaction is overreaction, no matter who does it.

Thats just like saying to a traffic cop " but you didn't pull me last time I was a ton up on this road"

No, because unlike your example she didn't actually do anything wrong. As I said, it should have taken one minute to make sure that it was only a piece of fashion, and she would have been on her way. These people overreacted, pure and simple.

[1480]

[QUOTE=Sailor Steve;1799110]

Ninth Amendment.

You have the right to do anything you want, as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's right to do the same.

The Ninth Amendment bars denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumeration of certain rights in the Constitution, but does not bar denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumeration of certain powers in the Constitution.[15] It is to that enumeration of powers that the courts have said we must look, in order to determine the extent of the unenumerated rights mentioned in the Ninth Amendment.[15]

United Public Workers v. Mitchell, 330 U.S. 75 (1947).

Laurence H. Tribe, American Constitutional Law 776 n. 14 (2nd ed. 1998).

"It is a common error, but an error nonetheless, to talk of 'ninth amendment rights.' The ninth amendment is not a source of rights as such; it is simply a rule about how to read the Constitution.

Gibson v. Matthews, 926 F.2d 532, 537 (6th Cir. 1991

"[T]he ninth amendment does not confer substantive rights in addition to those conferred by other portions of our governing law. The ninth amendment was added to the Bill of Rights to ensure that the maxim expressio unius est exclusio alterius would not be used at a later time to deny fundamental rights merely because they were not specifically enumerated in the Constitution."

So in my humble opinion, it is not a right.

On the one hand, it's the airlines' house and rules. As a private concern they do have the right to refuse service to anyone, as the Constitution only applies to the Federal Government.

On the other hand, we make laws to protect ourselves from each other, and only the Federal Government is big enough to protect us all in this case. In these modern times something like TSA is, like law, taxes and government in general, is a necessary evil. That said, it is indeed necessary, and we all pay the price.

We basically agree on this. Had the airlines been a private entity there would be no discussion here.

Comparing experiences here with experiences elsewhere is, to my mind, is in this case irrelevant. Are you saying that we should be grateful that our intrusive system is not as bad as theirs? I am, but I shouldn't have to be.

Actually, Bejing airport looks exactly like O'hare, just dimmer lighting. They have their own version of TSA but they go through if not exactly the same protocols than pretty much look cross trained with our TSA. And the reason why I mentioned it, was the three times I was searched after the initial screening. Must have been the Blackhawks jersey I had on

Saying the girl should have known better is just like saying she shouldn't have dressed provocatively if she didn't want to be raped. While true, it's still commenting on something that shouldn't be. A one-minute examination of the purse would have told the officials everything they needed to know.

Never liked that argument and it has no relevance to this particular incident. Rape is a crime of violence.

None of the rights enumerated in the Constitution are absolute either. Too many examples of case law that prove that. I'll PM them to you if you would like.

And Buna, you know I am terrible with semantics

[1480]

Originally Posted by soopaman2

Why do other countries (excepting Israel) do so well without dystopian rules to air travel?

In my experiences, airport security seems standardized now.