Oslo psychiatrists declare Breivik insane - Page 2

Platapus · 11-30-11, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

A friend of mine once expressed the opinion that "insanity" is more cause for punishment, not less. He felt that if the person really is insane then all the more reason to put him down now so he can't hurt anyone else.

Me? I don't know.

I would not agree that there is all the more reason to punish him, but I do strongly agree that with insane violent criminals there is all the more reason to lock them away from society.

Who is the greater threat to society
1. Man kills his business partner to get the entire company
2. Man kills everyone with green eyes

In my opinion we need to get away from the verdict of Not guilty due to insanity and instate a verdict of Guilty and Insane. With the understanding that such a person would be first committed to a mental institution.

If, after treatment, the doctors see no reason to keep the patient in the hospital, they would be transferred to a suitable prison to serve their sentence.

I don't understand this once cured all is forgiven mentality. Society has the responsibility to treat the mentally ill. But once that treatment is finished (either successfully or unsuccessfully) there still needs to be the basic accountability that I feel is important for any society to survive.

I would also like the mental professionals to reexamine exactly what they mean by "insane". I can understand that some insane people could be forgiven but other types I can't.

But it is a complicated issue.

Skybird · 11-30-11, 09:45 PM

Our understanding of holding somebody responsible for something he did, and to punish him, bases on the implicit preassumption that he has had - by his mental status - the choice to commit a crime or not. Responsibility comes with the freedom to choose. Freedom of choice comes with responsibility.

The correction in the law should therefore go at another direction.

A mentally deranged person may not be able to escape for example his inner voices or a hallucinations - the schizophrenic being driven by inner voices to slaughter somebody becaseu her fire-red hair was evil and a signt hat she was a demon th eat the world.

The person that got intoxicated by accident or without his knowledge or responsibility also may produce a mental status in which he commits crimes without knowing that he commits a crime. Exposure to a chemical agent at work due to accident or unsifficient security measures by the company. Mis-produced medical drugs, or a mistaking with the wrong drug by a nurse.

But then there are those who voluntarily poisen themselves, by alcohol for example. You have the choice to drink or not, or to drink more than is good for you or to stop before it is enough, or to ask somebody to take care of you so that you do not drink too much. Therefore, since you have these choices, you are responsible for the deeds you commit while being in a state of being drunk. A drunk person committing a crime while being drunk - therefore should be held responsible by law the same way as if he had not drank anything at all, no matter whether he causes an accident, a riot, or a crime. You are responsible for how much you drink, and whether you handed over the keys to your car right in time or not.

CCIP · 11-30-11, 10:37 PM

On the other hand, if you have a completely irrational, paranoid fear of being persecuted and channel this fear towards a particular group through compulsive, calculated behaviour for many years, that doesn't make the initial paranoid state that caused it any more rational or conscious. You don't choose to wake up one day and start seeing enemies everywhere - and his views and behaviour do look a bit too extreme and solitary to be acquired.

The issue of protecting society from these people is, in my view, totally separate. There should be no less protection of the public from people with irrational tendencies and complexes than from criminals, but I think differential treatment of them from the common criminal is justified. As long as both their diagnosis and their treatment is genuine, I see no issue. I don't see how that's something that flies in the face of the victims' families, either - unless you believe in retribution and revenge as basis of the justice system. I just don't see what anyone has to gain from a sick, delusional man being confined to a solitary cell for the rest of his life. Nor do I believe for a second believe that any of this means that he will walk free in any foreseeable future. He might as well be in a place where, if nothing else, experts would benefit from studying him on a constant basis.

Skybird · 04-10-12, 03:55 PM

Second assessment now says Breivik is not insane.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17663958

CCIP · 04-10-12, 04:08 PM

Sounds like the person happiest with this assessment is Breivik himself.

August · 04-10-12, 04:18 PM

Apparently they have now reversed their ruling and have declared him sane.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17663958

Quote:

A second psychiatric evaluation of Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik has found him sane enough to face trial and a jail term. The findings contradict a previous evaluation, published in November, that found him legally insane.

Skybird · 04-10-12, 04:48 PM

...

Karle94 · 04-10-12, 07:45 PM

Too bad our insane asylums aren´t like the ones in the Soviet Union. At least then he would truly suffer the suffering he deserves.

Oberon · 04-10-12, 07:54 PM

So, it's the choice between a comfortable room with meals provided for you and...a comfortable room with meals provided for you.

Karle94 · 04-10-12, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

So, it's the choice between a comfortable room with meals provided for you and...a comfortable room with meals provided for you.

Afraid so. If I were a homeless, I would do unspeakable crimes so I´d have a shelter and food.

Jimbuna · 04-11-12, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

So, it's the choice between a comfortable room with meals provided for you and...a comfortable room with meals provided for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karle94

Afraid so. If I were a homeless, I would do unspeakable crimes so I´d have a shelter and food.

If that's the case then hopefully he will be incarcerated for the rest of his life.

Karle94 · 04-11-12, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

If that's the case then hopefully he will be incarcerated for the rest of his life.

Saw on the front page of a newspaper that he might rot in the joint for the rest of his life. I pray to Thor that he does.

Jimbuna · 04-11-12, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karle94

Saw on the front page of a newspaper that he might rot in the joint for the rest of his life. I pray to Thor that he does.

Rgr that

11-30-11, 09:45 PM	#17
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,637 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Our understanding of holding somebody responsible for something he did, and to punish him, bases on the implicit preassumption that he has had - by his mental status - the choice to commit a crime or not. Responsibility comes with the freedom to choose. Freedom of choice comes with responsibility. The correction in the law should therefore go at another direction. A mentally deranged person may not be able to escape for example his inner voices or a hallucinations - the schizophrenic being driven by inner voices to slaughter somebody becaseu her fire-red hair was evil and a signt hat she was a demon th eat the world. The person that got intoxicated by accident or without his knowledge or responsibility also may produce a mental status in which he commits crimes without knowing that he commits a crime. Exposure to a chemical agent at work due to accident or unsifficient security measures by the company. Mis-produced medical drugs, or a mistaking with the wrong drug by a nurse. But then there are those who voluntarily poisen themselves, by alcohol for example. You have the choice to drink or not, or to drink more than is good for you or to stop before it is enough, or to ask somebody to take care of you so that you do not drink too much. Therefore, since you have these choices, you are responsible for the deeds you commit while being in a state of being drunk. A drunk person committing a crime while being drunk - therefore should be held responsible by law the same way as if he had not drank anything at all, no matter whether he causes an accident, a riot, or a crime. You are responsible for how much you drink, and whether you handed over the keys to your car right in time or not. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-30-11, 10:37 PM	#18
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	On the other hand, if you have a completely irrational, paranoid fear of being persecuted and channel this fear towards a particular group through compulsive, calculated behaviour for many years, that doesn't make the initial paranoid state that caused it any more rational or conscious. You don't choose to wake up one day and start seeing enemies everywhere - and his views and behaviour do look a bit too extreme and solitary to be acquired. The issue of protecting society from these people is, in my view, totally separate. There should be no less protection of the public from people with irrational tendencies and complexes than from criminals, but I think differential treatment of them from the common criminal is justified. As long as both their diagnosis and their treatment is genuine, I see no issue. I don't see how that's something that flies in the face of the victims' families, either - unless you believe in retribution and revenge as basis of the justice system. I just don't see what anyone has to gain from a sick, delusional man being confined to a solitary cell for the rest of his life. Nor do I believe for a second believe that any of this means that he will walk free in any foreseeable future. He might as well be in a place where, if nothing else, experts would benefit from studying him on a constant basis. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

04-10-12, 03:55 PM	#19
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,637 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Second assessment now says Breivik is not insane. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17663958 __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

04-10-12, 04:08 PM	#20
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Sounds like the person happiest with this assessment is Breivik himself. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

04-10-12, 04:48 PM	#22
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,637 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	... __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

04-10-12, 07:45 PM	#23
Karle94 The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Norseland Posts: 1,355 Downloads: 253 Uploads: 0	Too bad our insane asylums aren´t like the ones in the Soviet Union. At least then he would truly suffer the suffering he deserves. __________________ Find my mods here: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/lzgciodldp58p/SH4_Mods My SH4 blog here: http://karle94.blogspot.com/

04-10-12, 07:54 PM	#24
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	So, it's the choice between a comfortable room with meals provided for you and...a comfortable room with meals provided for you.