2 diesels out of 4 destroyed = stuck for the rest of your life?

[Elder-Pirate]

Yeah you are right RR. Guess a guy can dream though.

[Daniel Prates]

We wouldn't tell anyone, though.

Just kiddin.

[Rockin Robbins]

Yeah, I've been on the receiving end, when a "mod" was published that was actually a hacked version of the game code to change something or other that I don't remember right now and aren't going to research. The mods were all off hunting baby seals or something, and the mod was published.

The overall reaction from the Subsim community was "YAY!!!!!" so of course I had to weigh in with the discussion of exactly what a mod is and what an illegal game hack is. I called it a game hack and said that its publication on Subsim was an affront to Ubi, illegal conversion of Ubi's property, against the End User Agreement and endangered the very existence of Subsim if published here.

I did my rope-a-dope crash dummy imitation until the mods came back. Things got pretty ugly because people just don't like the truth sometimes. Borders are good, but they are restrictive. The mods returned, selling baby seal pelts and found that a riot had happened in their absence. They were not happy with the community's reaction to the hacked .exe file posing as a mod and published in the Subsim download section. It was quickly gone and the incident forgotten.

[joea]

Hey RR I remember reading that thread when I came back. Ouch, reminded me of the Ubi forum in 2007 when Il-2 was hacked for the first time and the nasty arguments - anyway best left in the past for now.

Well it's not the only flaw in what is overall a great sim, anyway I have lots of fun with to, making up for lost time not being able to play it til my upgrade last year. Thanks to Ubi and the modders.

[Daniel Prates]

There were people actually defending the 'right' do edit not-editable content? What were their general arguments?

[Rockin Robbins]

Yes, I'm afraid I had very few defenders, maybe as few as one or two. Citizens of Sumsim were enthusiastically proposing the end of moddable games, the end of Subsim and the proposition that games belong to the users, not the producers.

That last proposition would make it impossible for games and simulations to go the the next level of subscription based, continuously evolving and improving. Users would be paying the developers to modify, polish, optimize, enlarge and improve the game through years of treating a game/simulation franchise like it was a valuable asset to be nourished, not a piece of trash to be replaced by Piece of Trash 5 in a couple of months after everyone quits in disgust.

With every iteration of Piece of Trash less of it works, it is progressively dumbed down to the loudest complainer's standards, it sells fewer and fewer copies as dedicated players just give up in disgust until the game company smiles and says, "Submarine simulations are just not a viable niche any more. People are just not interested in submarines any more."

Unless a game company has ownership of its code and can defend it against those who would convert, steal or destroy it, they can't put the resources into what must follow if we are to have any progress. Right now the solution seems to be the game consoles. I refuse to buy one. They will make PC games and simulations or I won't buy.

We must progress to a situation where much game code and all player records and stats live on the web and we all play the same game, maintained by a stable crew of devs, paid for by a steady income stream from subscriptions. We pay for a great game. If they drop the ball we quit paying and they lose money. They are paid to ensure that doesn't happen, not to turn out drink coasters with a big hole in the middle.

Doesn't that make some sense? But it can't happen unless the game companies can invest their money with confidence.

[joea]

You know RR, that's not a half-bad idea! Not unprecendented I mean I work as webmaster at an international foundation here in Geneva. We have just upgraded our content management system (CMS) to a new open-source one called EZ publish. The devs in Norway have a group of partner companies we hired one and have a contract that they will update our software and add new features as we demand it.

[Rockin Robbins]

Absolutely right, not just games, but all computing is heading in that direction where it makes sense. And as far as games go, I'm just copying what has already successfully been done by Jagex, with Runescape and a growing family of other games. They have a couple hundred thousand paying $6.95 per month. Do the math. Ubi never had it so good with a submarine simulation franchise.

By selling their games they give up most of their potential income.

[Elektroniikka-Asentaja]

Valid arguments but I think you can't compare submarine simulations to medieval style MMORPG as (at least AFAIK) Subsims aren't quite as popular. However making a game about WWII where you create a character (submariner for example) that develops as you play could make some good ass popularity.

What comes to the topic I'm not too sure if you need to move in order to recharge batteries so you could stop, recharge, dive and go until you have to repeat the same. How bad is the hull damage and flooding so can you dive without the risk that you won't be coming back up?

[kylania]

This was in SH5, but I had 48% hull damage the other night. I test dove to 40m and all was quiet so I felt safe. Then I came across a destroyer who had me pegged. I dropped to 50m, nothing, but I couldn't lose the destroyer! Inched down to 80m... way risking it! But still I didn't pop. Still couldn't shake the escort though.

Finally pushed it to 90m. Every additional meter scared the pants off me, but still things were solid. Depth charges kept falling lower and lower though and getting closer to me. Decided to risk 100m. Got to 101... no loud noises or anything, so I guess I was---CRASH! BANG! Moments later I was dead. Imploded with about 2 seconds warning.

That's one thing I always wished took longer in all the Silent Hunter games. Once you reach crush depth it's basically instant. You have maybe 2 seconds to realize what's happening then you're dead. I'm fairly certainly it wasn't that quick and final in real life, you'd have more clues that your hull is about to cave in rather than going from "Everything is fine captain" to "squished like an egg".

[Elektroniikka-Asentaja]

Yeah, that's true! I got back to SH4 two days ago, started a career with S-18 (for some reason I love those rusty tin cans) and got the same fate. I had some holes in the sub as I (don't ask why) surface engaged two DDs so that may have caused something, I had small flooding and took it down to 80 meters, stopped down and waited. A moment after that someone screams "Pumps destroyed! Periscope destroyed! We have flooding sir!". And so ended my glorious first mission since ages..

[Unreal2004]

Hey all, new on here and new to SH4(or any SH game for that matter, last sub game I played was Silent Service) and have a story for ya withing this topic. I just got back to port with one left and right diesel destroyed, yes I am new to the game so my realism is at 6 I think right now and I have no mods yet. I ran out of torpedoes on my third mission, was trying to sink 2 Japanese passenger ships with 4 DD escorts, nailed the 1st with 3 Mk14s and it ended up going in circles with a bad list. Escorts started to hunt for me but I was out of sonar but within visual, fired 3 at the second liner and only 2 hit, they started to list and also circle but eventually got in a straight line and she took off, meanwhile I am now really trying to take out the DDs before they are on top of me, nail 2 with 2 torps each but they dont go down, only have 1 torp left in tube #1 but the DDs are behind me. I go emergency reverse directly inline with the DD chasing me (yes this may be an exploit/bug but it was all I had left to get rid of them) and surface to 10m (hate using metric but its the only way I can get decent measurements out of the game, even with imperial measurements half is still metric.......) just as he is about to run over me to avoid the guns, he crashes right into me, flies in the air while my sub is pushed down to 15m from 8M and he breaks in two, my conning tower is pretty much flooded completely and my attack periscope is destroyed (oops) but otherwise still floating and moving. I repeat this procedure on the remaining 3 DDs and gain progressively more damage, the last hit my conning tower is 100% flooded, my aft torpedo room is 50% flooded with many damaged components and my engine room is 30% flooded with 1 left and right diesel destroyed and almost everything else damaged. I tried to move after the last hit but there was no power (surfaced to gun down the circling passenger ship 3.5km out), after the liner sank I again tried to move (thinking since I had 2 good diesels) but nada, 0kts, not even a hint of movement.....sigh..... I time compress things to get repairs as done as they can be (takes 2 days damn near) and my mission is still not done (patrol) I start to think I need to hit one more freighter to up the tonnage but with no movement I cant move, at just about this time a search plane popped up on radar, I try to dive so it cant spot me, as I reach 9m all of a sudden I start moving as I reach 14m the sub floods instantly...guess they forgot to patch a hole in the tower LOL.......reload my game (I save OFTEN) and find I only have a stable depth of 9-12m where I dont flood and can move........great.... the plane can see me, I notice that my AA gun button is still lit and hop in it, water is JUST below the con top but the gun fires and I bring down the plane. I plot a course for home the fastest way I can and continue at 7-9kts, journey takes FOREVER and I have to down 2 more scout planes but I made it, got a message in dock with something to the effect that the engineers couldnt figure out how I managed to get back to dock still floating, admiral wasnt happy but have a new sub Anyone want a crack at the save game can message me Dunno how survivable this would be with higher realism but for just starting out it was tough. Sorry for the long post as well........when I can finish a mission without reloading it 30 times I will up the realism. Loving the game so far though

[magic452]

Welcome to the boat mate.

Sounds like you're having fun BUT sinking DDs with the conning tower is not recommended.

Magic

[Elder-Pirate]

Originally Posted by magic452

Welcome to the boat mate.

Sounds like you're having fun BUT sinking DDs with the conning tower is not recommended.

Magic

Heavens no, you're sure to get wet.

Welcome Unreal2004

[Elektroniikka-Asentaja]

Yeah it's a bug in stock/vanilla that causes DDs to sink when they hit anything, it's fixed in later patches, in 1.4 at least.

That gave me good idea, could try to get some über tonnage just with ramming other ships