Imagining the Downside of Immortality!

Gerald · 08-28-11, 02:34 PM

“The Fountain of Youth,” painted by Lucas Cranach the Elder in 1546, illustrates our long obsession with immortality.

Berlin

IMAGINE nobody dies. All of a sudden, whether through divine intervention or an elixir slipped into the water supply, death is banished. Life goes on and on; all of us are freed from fear that our loved ones will be plucked from us, and each of us is rich in the most precious resource of all: time.

Wouldn’t it be awful?

This is the premise of the TV series “Torchwood: Miracle Day,” a co-production of Starz and the BBC that has been running over the summer and ends in September. The “miracle” of the title is that no one dies anymore, but it proves to be a curse as overpopulation soon threatens to end civilization. The show is a nice twist on our age-old dream of living forever. And it is right to be pessimistic about what would happen if this dream were fulfilled — but for the wrong reasons. Materially, we could cope with the arrival of the elixir. But, psychologically, immortality would be the end of us.

The problem is that our culture is based on our striving for immortality. It shapes what we do and what we believe; it has inspired us to found religions, write poems and build cities. If we were all immortal, the motor of civilization would sputter and stop.

Poets and philosophers have long been attuned to the fact that the quest for immortality drives much of humanity’s peculiar ways. But only in recent decades has scientific evidence backed this up.

In a study that began in 1989, a group of American social psychologists found that just briefly reminding people that they would die had a remarkable impact on their political and religious views.

In their first experiment, the researchers recruited court judges from Tucson. Half the judges were reminded of their mortality (via an otherwise innocuous personality test) and half were not. They were then all asked to rule on a hypothetical case of prostitution similar to those they ruled on. The judges who had first been reminded of their mortality set a bond nine times higher than those who hadn’t (averaging $455 compared to $50).

These psychologists — Sheldon Solomon, Jeff Greenberg and Tom Pyszczynski — were testing the hypothesis that we have developed our cultural worldviews in order to give us the sense that we might defy death. They reasoned that if this were not the case, when faced with reminders of mortality, people would cling more fiercely to their beliefs and be more negative about those who threatened them. This is just what happened with the judges: when reminded that they would one day die, they were more severe in punishing those who violated their worldview.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/op...me&ref=general

Note: August 27, 2011

Anthony W. · 08-28-11, 02:50 PM

If we found a way to live forever, the first thing I'd try is probably to give a nuke a hug - while it goes off

Or jump from a commercial jet

Or drive a smartcar head on into a semi truck

Betonov · 08-28-11, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony W.

If we found a way to live forever, the first thing I'd try is probably to give a nuke a hug - while it goes off

Reminds me of a short Sci-Fi story I once read, where a guy invents an inpenetrable shield and tests it by sitting next to an A-bomb while it explodes. The shield worked, he was unscaved, but blown into orbit where he suffocated in space

Skybird · 08-28-11, 04:49 PM

Western culture is highly individualistic - and thanatophobic. I see a link between both. We value the individual and it'S rights and freedoms extremely high. and by that it seems that we lose the meaning of death out of our sight. Avoiding leads to no longer learning. Lack of insight leads to fear. And by this, we become obsessed with the idea of wanting to live forever/stay forever young.

A rough and extremeley shortened summary, I know. But you may get the principle idea.

The art of living we can only learn by losing our fear of death. But the fear of death we can only lose when understanding that there is no use in clinging to life at all cost. Don't be ahead of events, don't lack behind. Do not resist, nor cling for it. That way, the art of living and the art of dying become one. And fear may lose its fangs to insight.

Jimbuna · 08-28-11, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

Reminds me of a short Sci-Fi story I once read, where a guy invents an inpenetrable shield and tests it by sitting next to an A-bomb while it explodes. The shield worked, he was unscaved, but blown into orbit where he suffocated in space

LOL

Oberon · 08-28-11, 05:51 PM

Sounds like a job for Torchwood

Skybird · 08-28-11, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony W.

If we found a way to live forever, the first thing I'd try is probably to give a nuke a hug - while it goes off

Or jump from a commercial jet

Or drive a smartcar head on into a semi truck

And any arguments in favour of why you should live forever?

Edit:
Just remembered this older movie with Sean Connery, "Zardoz". Still a good one.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 08-28-11, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony W.

If we found a way to live forever, the first thing I'd try is probably to give a nuke a hug - while it goes off

Or jump from a commercial jet

Or drive a smartcar head on into a semi truck

Reminder; nobody promised exemption from experience of pain.

Torplexed · 08-28-11, 06:19 PM

I figure after about the first 750,000 years of immortality the thrill of everything would be gone.

Reece · 08-28-11, 06:42 PM

Dieing doesn't bother me, it's the way I might go about it!!

Jimbuna · 08-28-11, 06:47 PM

I wouldn't care to be around seeing my family die.

August · 08-31-11, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony W.

If we found a way to live forever, the first thing I'd try is probably to give a nuke a hug - while it goes off

Or jump from a commercial jet

Or drive a smartcar head on into a semi truck

Excellent, can I haz your stuff?

08-28-11, 02:34 PM	#1
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Imagining the Downside of Immortality! “The Fountain of Youth,” painted by Lucas Cranach the Elder in 1546, illustrates our long obsession with immortality. Berlin IMAGINE nobody dies. All of a sudden, whether through divine intervention or an elixir slipped into the water supply, death is banished. Life goes on and on; all of us are freed from fear that our loved ones will be plucked from us, and each of us is rich in the most precious resource of all: time. Wouldn’t it be awful? This is the premise of the TV series “Torchwood: Miracle Day,” a co-production of Starz and the BBC that has been running over the summer and ends in September. The “miracle” of the title is that no one dies anymore, but it proves to be a curse as overpopulation soon threatens to end civilization. The show is a nice twist on our age-old dream of living forever. And it is right to be pessimistic about what would happen if this dream were fulfilled — but for the wrong reasons. Materially, we could cope with the arrival of the elixir. But, psychologically, immortality would be the end of us. The problem is that our culture is based on our striving for immortality. It shapes what we do and what we believe; it has inspired us to found religions, write poems and build cities. If we were all immortal, the motor of civilization would sputter and stop. Poets and philosophers have long been attuned to the fact that the quest for immortality drives much of humanity’s peculiar ways. But only in recent decades has scientific evidence backed this up. In a study that began in 1989, a group of American social psychologists found that just briefly reminding people that they would die had a remarkable impact on their political and religious views. In their first experiment, the researchers recruited court judges from Tucson. Half the judges were reminded of their mortality (via an otherwise innocuous personality test) and half were not. They were then all asked to rule on a hypothetical case of prostitution similar to those they ruled on. The judges who had first been reminded of their mortality set a bond nine times higher than those who hadn’t (averaging $455 compared to $50). These psychologists — Sheldon Solomon, Jeff Greenberg and Tom Pyszczynski — were testing the hypothesis that we have developed our cultural worldviews in order to give us the sense that we might defy death. They reasoned that if this were not the case, when faced with reminders of mortality, people would cling more fiercely to their beliefs and be more negative about those who threatened them. This is just what happened with the judges: when reminded that they would one day die, they were more severe in punishing those who violated their worldview. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/op...me&ref=general Note: August 27, 2011 __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

08-28-11, 02:50 PM	#2
Anthony W. Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 850 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	If we found a way to live forever, the first thing I'd try is probably to give a nuke a hug - while it goes off Or jump from a commercial jet Or drive a smartcar head on into a semi truck __________________ Sunken Mustangs Proud Ford Mustang owner "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" - Admiral David Farragut Run silent - run deep - keep the baffles clear - targets front and center. Private pilot and history buff

08-28-11, 04:49 PM	#4
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,680 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Western culture is highly individualistic - and thanatophobic. I see a link between both. We value the individual and it'S rights and freedoms extremely high. and by that it seems that we lose the meaning of death out of our sight. Avoiding leads to no longer learning. Lack of insight leads to fear. And by this, we become obsessed with the idea of wanting to live forever/stay forever young. A rough and extremeley shortened summary, I know. But you may get the principle idea. The art of living we can only learn by losing our fear of death. But the fear of death we can only lose when understanding that there is no use in clinging to life at all cost. Don't be ahead of events, don't lack behind. Do not resist, nor cling for it. That way, the art of living and the art of dying become one. And fear may lose its fangs to insight. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-28-11, 06:19 PM	#9
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I figure after about the first 750,000 years of immortality the thrill of everything would be gone. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

08-28-11, 06:42 PM	#10
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,751 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Dieing doesn't bother me, it's the way I might go about it!! __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

08-28-11, 05:51 PM	#6
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Sounds like a job for Torchwood

08-28-11, 06:47 PM	#11
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,742 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I wouldn't care to be around seeing my family die. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!