Where do i stand politicaly.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Platapus

At one time you may have been a Republican. But perhaps the party changed and not you?

I was a Republican all my life coming from a family of Republicans. In the past 20 years or so, the GOP has changed and changed in a way that no longer agrees with my opinions.

Hence, I am now an Independent.

I never defined myself as a Republican, in fact I registered as a Democrat as soon as I was old enough. Of course I was forced to stay inside and watch the Watergate hearings as a child, and my first memory of the Republican party is of Richard Nixon, so let's just say that the GOP and I did not get off to a good start.

On the other hand I never identified myself as a "liberal" either socially or otherwise until those who called themselves "conservatives" started bringing up a lot of stuff that I'd never really had much occasion to think about before. Basically they made issues out of things that were never "issues" to me before they started squawking about them, and the more they squawked the more obvious it became that I was on the other side of whatever line they were drawing if only because the way in which they drew it was so distasteful to me personally.

Now I think it's safe to say that unless there is a major purge of certain elements within the GOP, they've lost whatever shot they had with me. When I cast a vote it's more likely to be against their candidates than for whoever is running on the other side. I don't like it, but I refuse to just *not* vote because I'm keenly aware that however pointless it seems it's still more than a lot of people around the world will ever have the opportunity to do.

[gimpy117]

you sound like me

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

I never defined myself as a Republican, in fact I registered as a Democrat as soon as I was old enough. Of course I was forced to stay inside and watch the Watergate hearings as a child, and my first memory of the Republican party is of Richard Nixon, so let's just say that the GOP and I did not get off to a good start.

On the other hand I never identified myself as a "liberal" either socially or otherwise until those who called themselves "conservatives" started bringing up a lot of stuff that I'd never really had much occasion to think about before. Basically they made issues out of things that were never "issues" to me before they started squawking about them, and the more they squawked the more obvious it became that I was on the other side of whatever line they were drawing if only because the way in which they drew it was so distasteful to me personally.

Now I think it's safe to say that unless there is a major purge of certain elements within the GOP, they've lost whatever shot they had with me. When I cast a vote it's more likely to be against their candidates than for whoever is running on the other side. I don't like it, but I refuse to just *not* vote because I'm keenly aware that however pointless it seems it's still more than a lot of people around the world will ever have the opportunity to do.

"I was old enough" Now we talking,

[vienna]

From Frau Kaleun:

And yes I say pandering, because IMO most of the Powers That Be in the GOP couldn't care less about the religious right's agenda beyond doing what it takes to get their votes on election day.

More truth than you think. Afew years ago I was asked to cover for someone who was going on a trip to Europe. They worked for a professional political campaign organizing firm and I was to provide IT coverage for the firm's Los Angeles office. When I went to their office, I discovered they were soley employed by the Republican Party or Republican Politcal Action Committees (PAC). I had always had suspicions abouth the ethics of political campaigns, but during the time I spent there, I was exposed to some of the most cynical, devious, underhanded, dishonest, and just about, but not quite, illegal activities ever to be seen. I wasn't even privy to the majority of the activities undertaken by these people but what I did see and hear exceeded anything I had ever experienced. The truly astonishing part of the experience was the totally amoral attitude expressed by the employees in the office. The attitude was one of "If it gets the votes, it's justified". I am rather certain that the Republicans are not alone in their use of such firms; the Democrats and other parties no doubt have there own political 'hitmen'. I am registerered as a Democrat; in California we do not have open primaries, so if you register as an independent, you are sometimes excluded or limited from cretain partisan election issues. I registered as a Democrat initially because the Republican Party in California is a near total mess. I vote for the candidate or issue I have decided upon after studying the issues. I was going to vote for John McCain for President until the Republicans foisted that joke of a running mate Palin on him and he chose not to object or refuse. I am not be registered as an Independent, but I vote independently of any partisan influence. Sometimes it seems if the voters scrapped party affiliations and voted not as told but as common sense indicates, we'd all be better off in this country.

[Bakkels]

Originally Posted by vienna

More truth than you think. Afew years ago I was asked to cover for someone who was going on a trip to Europe. They worked for a professional political campaign organizing firm and I was to provide IT coverage for the firm's Los Angeles office. When I went to their office, I discovered they were soley employed by the Republican Party or Republican Politcal Action Committees (PAC). I had always had suspicions abouth the ethics of political campaigns, but during the time I spent there, I was exposed to some of the most cynical, devious, underhanded, dishonest, and just about, but not quite, illegal activities ever to be seen. I wasn't even privy to the majority of the activities undertaken by these people but what I did see and hear exceeded anything I had ever experienced. The truly astonishing part of the experience was the totally amoral attitude expressed by the employees in the office. The attitude was one of "If it gets the votes, it's justified". I am rather certain that the Republicans are not alone in their use of such firms; the Democrats and other parties no doubt have there own political 'hitmen'. I am registerered as a Democrat; in California we do not have open primaries, so if you register as an independent, you are sometimes excluded or limited from cretain partisan election issues. I registered as a Democrat initially because the Republican Party in California is a near total mess. I vote for the candidate or issue I have decided upon after studying the issues. I was going to vote for John McCain for President until the Republicans foisted that joke of a running mate Palin on him and he chose not to object or refuse. I am not be registered as an Independent, but I vote independently of any partisan influence. Sometimes it seems if the voters scrapped party affiliations and voted not as told but as common sense indicates, we'd all be better off in this country.

Interesting story Vienna. One thing I always wondered; why do you have to register yourself for voting in the US? And what's even stranger to me; why do you have to register with either the democrats or the republicans? (well you dont have to, but as you said, if you don't you get excluded from voting which is -again even more- weird in my eyes) I never understood that.
Over here, even asking someone what they vote can sometimes be considered slightly offensive; it's your business and no one elses.

[August]

My earliest political memories were of the Democratic party were of LBJ and and their war in Vietnam (guess I'm a little older than you). But i've never registered for any party. None of them fully represent my beliefs and interests.

[vienna]

...why do you have to register yourself for voting in the US? And what's even stranger to me; why do you have to register with either the democrats or the republicans? (well you dont have to, but as you said, if you don't you get excluded from voting which is -again even more- weird in my eyes) I never understood that.

The purpose of registering is mainly to help ensure a person does not vote more than once in a given election; names, addresses, etc. are compared to detect duplicate registrations. Registering as a member of a party is really mostly governed by localities (states, counties). In order to select a candidate to represent a particular party for a particular office, primary elections are held where the voters in each party vote from a selction of candidates within the party and the candidate garnering the most votes goes on to represent the party in the main General Election. Therefore, only the voters officially registered in the party can vote from the party's list of candidates. Not all localities have primaries in this manner; some localities have "open" primaries where a voter can vote for a candidate across party lines. Here in California we do not have open primaries.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by vienna

The purpose of registering is mainly to help ensure a person does not vote more than once in a given election; names, addresses, etc. are compared to detect duplicate registrations.

Close, but not quite correct. The main purpose of registering is to help ensure that people who actually vote do so along party lines. The only reason we have our voter and party guidelines we have is to shut out competition from third parties. Don't take my word for it, try to start a party yourself. I'll hold my breath while you gather the requisite 40,000 signatories, and that's in Texas where the guidelines are comparatively lax.

When it comes to persons themselves, the parties could care less about who votes or how many times. The Democratic party has no compunction about getting dead people to vote or bribing illiterates to vote, and the Republican party has no compunction about redistricting votes in their favor. Actually, neither party has a stance against that, but the Reps are better at it.

Registering as a member of a party is really mostly governed by localities (states, counties). In order to select a candidate to represent a particular party for a particular office, primary elections are held where the voters in each party vote from a selction of candidates within the party and the candidate garnering the most votes goes on to represent the party in the main General Election. Therefore, only the voters officially registered in the party can vote from the party's list of candidates. Not all localities have primaries in this manner; some localities have "open" primaries where a voter can vote for a candidate across party lines.

That's what they'd like you to think. The truth is... well, what you just said. It's just a mechanism for polarizing the vote along party lines. Nothing more, nothing less. You won't find open primaries in any district that matters, nor will you find third-party candidates on their ballots. It's an extortion racket, albeit a cleverly concealed one.

Here in California we do not have open primaries.

Most states don't. The idea is supposedly to prevent subversives from voting against a viable candidate, but the real reason is to separate voters and side-line third parties and independent candidates. Don't take my word for it, just fill out a false voter registration form. Nobody is going to do a background check. You can vote two or three times if you like, maybe more, as long as you register in different counties.

Both parties are quite fond of the two-party system, and they are keen to keep it as such, hence the system we have now.


That's my interpretation, anyways. Maybe I'm right and maybe I'm wrong, but it can't hurt to be mindful of the nature of the system and the results it has given us.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Don't take my word for it, just fill out a false voter registration form. Nobody is going to do a background check. You can vote two or three times if you like, maybe more, as long as you register in different counties.

I doubt that. In Virginia all voter registrations are verified and you can only vote in the county where you are a residence. I am sure that the other states have similar protections.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I doubt that. In Virginia all voter registrations are verified and you can only vote in the county where you are a residence. I am sure that the other states have similar protections.

A minor obstacle. Had I the care to do so I could register and vote in Virginia and then vote again under a different name, provided I had the requisite SS number, which isn't really difficult to obtain.

I've served as a registrar in county and state elections. Nobody checks your identity or cross-references it, nobody cares, nor do they have the means to do so if they did care. You have entirely too much faith in the system, my friend.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I've served as a registrar in county and state elections. Nobody checks your identity or cross-references it, nobody cares, nor do they have the means to do so if they did care. You have entirely too much faith in the system, my friend.

No I just happen to be an Election Official and I know how the system works in my state. Perhaps your state has different rules.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Platapus

No I just happen to be an Election Official and I know how the system works in my state. Perhaps your state has different rules.

It probably does. Nonetheless, I could vote multiple times in your state. You have no photo-ID system, nor do you have a reliable database to consult. You have no measures in place to ensure that I don't vote under a different identity, provided that I have an SS number, which could easily obtain from others. I don't even need to know which state you live in to make such an assertion. Election official or no, you do not have the means to identify me. I could vote in another county under a different and totally valid name and SS# and you would be none the wiser. You have no means to cross-reference my identity, not that I'd ever do such a thing.

Don't take my word for it, though. Just look at the number of voter-fraud cases. Those people managed to get past people just like you with little difficulty. Intelligent as you are, you place too much faith in your abilities and those of others.

[August]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I could vote multiple times in your state

So maybe a person could vote, what, maybe 5 to 10 times using that exploit? I'd think any more would just invite getting caught. Well if so it'd still take literally an army of conspirators doing that to have a material effect on even state or local elections, let alone the national ones.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Seth8530

Hey, ive grown up my whole life thinking im a republican. But now im starting to wonder, all of my conservative friends are starting to sound downright stupid to me. So where do my political alliance lie?

.

Well, you're from Tennessee.

[Aramike]

Seth, sounds like you're an independant, which is where I think most people would fall in some shape or another if they exercised free thought. Instead, most people tend to let the parties think FOR them on most everything so long as that party agrees with their opinion on one or two things.

I fancy myself an independant although I no doubt lean conservative on most issues. Quite frankly most social issues I couldn't care less about. Economics and foreign policy are my key issues, and at times I have supported both parties in approaches and reforms. It can be draining at times because it's simple to find yourself in the middle of both sides in an argument, fighting off rhetoric and talking points seemingly without an ally in the world.

The bottom line my friend? I figure that, rather than voting a spectrum it is most wise to vote based upon the few things that are most important to you, AT THAT TIME, and to be sure to revisit the issues and their importance regularly. For instance, I tend to (loosely) side with many environmental causes which are a Democrat issue. Yet, it's hard to see the US being in any position to accomplish anything environmentally with a broken economy, and I'm convinced the Democrats are on a path to fiscal ruin.

JFK said it best with "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country." I think these are probably some of the most inspired words any US politician has ever uttered. I take that to mean that, in the very least, we should all strive to understand our nation's needs at any given time and attempt to put in power those most suited to serve those needs, understanding that needs will change and different people will be required. To be able to honestly do so means that one must never be led into blind ideological slavery to any political party or special interest.

Read August's signature once - while I believe that "never" is a strong word, I agree with it in principle.