evading escorts

[UBOOT_fan]

In my opinion the AI is a joke in SH5, it looks like the one in SH4. The only real formidable AI I saw was in SH3. My guess is that developers tried to make a game to appeal even to non hardcore simmers, because there is no other explanation. Anyway if you are old to SH series you will have always the feeling that this game is unfinished, unpolished etc.
So if I were you I wouldn't worry too much about evading. Just dive to 40m and throttle max speed to go away from the convoy and then go home to refit.
If you really want a challenge check the modding section, there are some mods where the realism is as good as it gets. Cheers !

[stoianm]

if you read careful his post you will see that he use IRAI - and because of that he has concerns about evading... i know you like vanilla because you think is more immersive than to install mods... but in topic with spoked aboutt AI after IRAI and that has nothing to do with vanilla - so you cand just dive in your game but for sure he must to use some good evasion tactics
EDIT - i am not old to SH series - i played only sh5 but i think that the game with the all mods made in meantime is a playable game

[UBOOT_fan]

Originally Posted by stoianm

if you read careful his post you will see that he use IRAI - and because of that he has concerns about evading... i know you like vanilla because you think is more immersive than to install mods... but in topic with spoked aboutt AI after IRAI and that has nothing to do with vanilla - so you cand just dive in your game but for sure he must to use some good evasion tactics
EDIT - i am not old to SH series - i played only sh5 but i think that the game with the all mods made in meantime is a playable game

I DID read carefully what he wrote. I just said some general considerations. If you "have read my post carefully"...I mentioned that, too

[Cpt. Grouch]

I ran into a nasty escort of DDs after I picked up a task force off the british coast. Convoy composition was two transport ships (huge european liners!) and a couple large cargo ships. I tried to intercept but before I could get the convoy on visual a DD came right out of the fog on top of me.

So I got to have my own little das boot moment there lol. Complete with sound effects thanks to stormy's DBSM mod.

I escaped first by conducting an emergency dive, followed by battlestations and silent running. Battlestations is important because it improves overall ship handling, which helps you get out from underneath the destroyer.

So far the most important factor I've found in surviving is keeping the destroyer from bracketting your sub with depth charges. This means you'll have to try to evade using hard turns to port or starboard. Stoiamn's advice about the "waserbomben" is a great way to gauge when to engage those evasive manuevers. Flank speed is OK during the turn because the destroyer can't (or atleast shouldn't) be able to detect you accuratly for its next attack run. This gives you a moment to lose them. Generally they'll lose you if you can get out of the bracket and let them make a few unsussessful passes. The more often they miss, the less likely they'll be to re-aquire you on the next run.

I have a question regarding evasion and attacking also. . .how does one sneak up on a convoy in the fog? I didn't even make a visual and that DD was headed right for me, straight through the fog. This was September 1939.....

I'm not a specialist on the Battle of the Atlantic, but I have studied the subject a little. From what I've read, British escort vessels were woefully inadequate for use against u-boats during the first two years of the war. Many escort vessels had no radar or ASDIC until they were commisioned with them later in the war. I'm pretty sure they didn't have deptch charges that could reach 200m until 1941. Does IRAI accuratly reflect this? Also, does the AI allow us as players to utilize actual U-boat tactics? Because so far every suface attack I've made has ended in failure. It seems no matter the weather or my current speed, the DDs pick me up and head straight for me.

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by UBOOT_fan

I DID read carefully what he wrote.

So if I were you I wouldn't worry too much about evading. Just dive to 40m and throttle max speed to go away from the convoy and then go home to refit.

- do not think so:

Install IRAI v30 and try to do that - end of topic... i will continue the dialog only after you will try what you said with IRAIv30 installed

[stoianm]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Grouch

I ran into a nasty escort of DDs after I picked up a task force off the british coast. Convoy composition was two transport ships (huge european liners!) and a couple large cargo ships. I tried to intercept but before I could get the convoy on visual a DD came right out of the fog on top of me.

So I got to have my own little das boot moment there lol. Complete with sound effects thanks to stormy's DBSM mod.

I escaped first by conducting an emergency dive, followed by battlestations and silent running. Battlestations is important because it improves overall ship handling, which helps you get out from underneath the destroyer.

So far the most important factor I've found in surviving is keeping the destroyer from bracketting your sub with depth charges. This means you'll have to try to evade using hard turns to port or starboard. Stoiamn's advice about the "waserbomben" is a great way to gauge when to engage those evasive manuevers. Flank speed is OK during the turn because the destroyer can't (or atleast shouldn't) be able to detect you accuratly for its next attack run. This gives you a moment to lose them. Generally they'll lose you if you can get out of the bracket and let them make a few unsussessful passes. The more often they miss, the less likely they'll be to re-aquire you on the next run.

I have a question regarding evasion and attacking also. . .how does one sneak up on a convoy in the fog? I didn't even make a visual and that DD was headed right for me, straight through the fog. This was September 1939.....

I'm not a specialist on the Battle of the Atlantic, but I have studied the subject a little. From what I've read, British escort vessels were woefully inadequate for use against u-boats during the first two years of the war. Many escort vessels had no radar or ASDIC until they were commisioned with them later in the war. I'm pretty sure they didn't have deptch charges that could reach 200m until 1941. Does IRAI accuratly reflect this? Also, does the AI allow us as players to utilize actual U-boat tactics? Because so far every suface attack I've made has ended in failure. It seems no matter the weather or my current speed, the DDs pick me up and head straight for me.

When i have fog days i try to hunt by hydro only: i use for that the ,,4 bearings methode,, and i know that makman (if i am not wrong) made an movie about that... search of these on the forum and if you not can find tell me and i will search for you

I have IRAI v30 installed and i must to prepare my attack very well to not have problems .. so in my opinion IRAI is the brain of sh5 - and yes i use uboat tactics that i read on the net and it is working

about the surfaces attacks i do not plane my attacks at surface but i know Magnum like very much the surface attack in night time... maybe he can give you some trics

btw... what you means by battlestations? - you mean that you send all crew to battlestation in the time you are doing an attack or an evasion?

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Grouch

I'm not a specialist on the Battle of the Atlantic, but I have studied the subject a little. From what I've read, British escort vessels were woefully inadequate for use against u-boats during the first two years of the war. Many escort vessels had no radar or ASDIC until they were commisioned with them later in the war. I'm pretty sure they didn't have deptch charges that could reach 200m until 1941. Does IRAI accuratly reflect this? Also, does the AI allow us as players to utilize actual U-boat tactics? Because so far every suface attack I've made has ended in failure. It seems no matter the weather or my current speed, the DDs pick me up and head straight for me.

IRAI currently is a compromise because of the GR2 limitation. The compromise is that it's set to be for the later years of the war. I had to do this so that in the later years of the war the AI is difficult. Once the GR2 limitation is broken and I can clone the sensors for the ships I can make dumbed down versions of those sensors for the earlier war years. I can also then clone the DCs so that their depth range is shallower in the earlier years. Until we can break the GR2 limitation I made the mod the best that I could.

[Cpt. Grouch]

Originally Posted by stoianm

When i have fog days i try to hunt by hydro only: i use for that the ,,4 bearings methode,, and i know that makman (if i am not wrong) made an movie about that... search of these on the forum and if you not can find tell me and i will search for you

I will search, now that I know what to look for. I'm getting better at researching the forums so I'll give it a second shot. The task force I found using hydrophones also, but I was having trouble keeping up their pace, so I surfaced to close the distance.

I have IRAI v30 installed and i must to prepare my attack very well to not have problems .. so in my opinion IRAI is the brain of sh5 - and yes i use uboat tactics that i read on the net and it is working

Awesome! Thats what I was hoping for! Nothing more fun than applying what you've learned.

about the surfaces attacks i do not plane my attacks at surface but i know Magnum like very much the surface attack in night time... maybe he can give you some trics

I'll have to bug him about that.

btw... what you means by battlestations? - you mean that you send all crew to battlestation in the time you are doing an attack or an evasion?

I usually try to activate battle stations prior to the attack, usually once I've made contact. That way its already active incase of emergency (such as the one I had). I keep it running throughout evasions unless my damages require me to devote the crew to repairs rather than their stations. In the attack I described, I had not yet made the call to battlestations because I hadn't yet made a visual contact, so I called it on the way down during my emergency dive.

Responded to comments/suggestions/questions in green, thanks for the feedback!

[Cpt. Grouch]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

IRAI currently is a compromise because of the GR2 limitation. The compromise is that it's set to be for the later years of the war. I had to do this so that in the later years of the war the AI is difficult. Once the GR2 limitation is broken and I can clone the sensors for the ships I can make dumbed down versions of those sensors for the earlier war years. I can also then clone the DCs so that their depth range is shallower in the earlier years. Until we can break the GR2 limitation I made the mod the best that I could.

And its a damn fine mod too. I agree with the majority here, the new AI really brings the world to life. I had a feeling thats where you were going about the limitations to the programming, but I just wanted to ask for clarification.