ObamaCare - The New Perspective - Page 2

GoldenRivet · 11-04-10, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

That's what insurance is. Cancel every insurance policy you have if you don't like it.

but as yet i have the OPTION.

My wife and i would pay into private insurance so that WE can have specific coverages and options... not so that the welfare crack whore mother of 7 illegitimate children can pick and chose coverages and options.

what part of "give me the option to choose whether or not i have insurance" are you not getting?

mookiemookie · 11-04-10, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

but as yet i have the OPTION.

My wife and i would pay into private insurance so that WE can have specific coverages and options... not so that the welfare crack whore mother of 7 illegitimate children can pick and chose coverages and options.

what part of "give me the option to choose whether or not i have insurance" are you not getting?

hee hee

GoldenRivet · 11-04-10, 04:08 PM

Im basically tired of "certain members of society" getting their free ride.

tater · 11-04-10, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

That's what insurance is. Cancel every insurance policy you have if you don't like it.

Insurance is voluntary.

This law is idiotic, and is overwhelmingly negative. It also doesn't address any of the real problems. Forcing docs to see patients that they actually lose money seeing would be like forcing auto workers to build cars and pay them less than their lunches and gas money costs. Should auto-workers subsidize car prices by being paid less than their direct costs to get to and be at work?

This disincentivizes becoming a doc in the first place (negative incomes are unattractive), when a real problem is a lack of providers. Don't worry, we can mint more by lowering standards. Maybe the DO schools can crank out more poorly qualified "docs" to meet the need—don't see any too far after graduation, they are not required to re-certify like real docs.

Oh, wait, docs won't make negative incomes, they can't. In return, insurance must pay even more, which means massive premium hikes assuming your employer doesn't elect for the de facto public option in the plan of dumping people on medicaid. Have fun in the waiting room next to the guy in the orange jumpsuit and manacles.

All that without the entirely unknown stuff since most of the actual details (required to know anything about how the bill really works, or costs) are left to unelected people to decide for us. Anyone claiming to know the real net results of this bill is flat out lying, since again, very little is actually written down (amazing given the size of the bill), and is to be added by people who no not represent the people at some indeterminate time in the future.

A good law would not be nearly as long, and would have everything written down so we'd know what to expect. Any bill—or process—to work on healthcare that is not 100% transparent, with clear language, and plenty of time for the public to actually understand the bill should have been summarily rejected.

Note that Obama said as much during the campaign (he must have been lying). he said the entire process should be televised on CSPAN. He said that any healthcare solution needed to be bipartisan, it was just too important to be partisan. He said there should be no "closed door" sessions. The actual bill was passed in a completely partisan way, was incredibly opaque with votes bought in closed door sessions, and no one in congress, much less lay people could possibly have understood the bill before it was voted on.

Platapus · 11-04-10, 05:04 PM

This poll is not valid as it does not give us all the choices. Why would anyone think this question can be answered with only those two options.

Ducimus · 11-04-10, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Why would anyone think this question can be answered with only those two options.

Because some people here can only see in two dimensions, with nothing in between?

Tchocky · 11-04-10, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Because some people here can only see in two dimensions, with nothing in between?

WRONG

Buddahaid · 11-04-10, 06:31 PM

Even if you work and live within your means, how can you afford not to have health insurance? I have insurance, but if I didn't, I would be very hard put to pay the $60,000.00 it cost to have my wifes broken ankle repaired. $7,300.00 for the ER visit and $56,000.00 for the surgery.

Platapus · 11-04-10, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Because some people here can only see in two dimensions, with nothing in between?

Yeah, I am afraid you are right.

In a kooky way, it must be comforting for many, to be able to only see the realities of life through black and white lenses.

Every time I try to see the world in black and white, all I see is varying shades of gray.

tater · 11-04-10, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Even if you work and live within your means, how can you afford not to have health insurance? I have insurance, but if I didn't, I would be very hard put to pay the $60,000.00 it cost to have my wifes broken ankle repaired. $7,300.00 for the ER visit and $56,000.00 for the surgery.

That the actual amount paid, or a billed amount? What gets billed, and what the contract is for actual payment can be very different.

My wife at first comped a surgery, and they got reamed for several thousand bucks anyway, then had to charge for the surgery, because the insurance would not pay with no surgeon fee. Her fee was a couple hundred bucks, the total cost was closer to 15 grand.

One huge problem is the disconnect between paying and getting service. The patient and the doc—neither have a clue how much it costs. There is no feedback at all.

Platapus · 11-04-10, 06:52 PM

A few years ago, The Frau had to get some surgery that was not covered by insurance. Once the doctor understood that we were paying cash, the "cost" of the operation dropped significantly.. as in less than half.

tater · 11-04-10, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

A few years ago, The Frau had to get some surgery that was not covered by insurance. Once the doctor understood that we were paying cash, the "cost" of the operation dropped significantly.. as in less than half.

It's like that because if the posted rate was lower, then some health plan might demand a discount on THAT rate. Usually the amount collected from insurance is a fraction of the billed amount.

Imagine if the plumber could send you a bill, and you could send them 50% and they'd say "thank you, come again!" instead of sending you to collections.

BTW, you can always make arrangements to pay, then pay SOMETHING every month. Even $5 and my wife's office would never send you to collections. He biggest few stiffs on payment have all had one thing in common...

all were lawyers. %$#@%$# deadbeats. The lawyer jokes can start any time.

Aramike · 11-05-10, 12:59 AM

Quote:

No we're not left with that question at all. The Dem's still control the Senate and have veto power in the White House. It's not being repealed.

That's a pretty bold statement. Just two years we were overwhelmed with predictions of doom for the GOP, and now look where we are.

Honestly, I suspect that a very real, determined, and intensive effort to repeal Obamacare will begin as soon as the new Congress is sworn in. Furthermore, I believe that you are overestimating the meaning behind the fact that the Dems maintained control of Congress during this election - far more Democrat Senators are up for reelection in 2012 than this time around, many of which come from moderate to conservative districts which went Democrat in '06 due to dissatisfaction with Bush and the GOP that was heavily entrenched at the time. I will not be in the least bit suprised if they begin to move away from their vote on healthcare in the interest of self-preservation.

If that happens, I don't see a presidential veto - if the Democrats and Republicans both come out against Obamacare, Obama would be sealing his fate by going against both his party and the opposition (enemy).

Bottom line is that it would be insane to think that the GOP won't be intense in going after this issue, as it is a proven winner for them.

Aramike · 11-05-10, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

This poll is not valid as it does not give us all the choices. Why would anyone think this question can be answered with only those two options.

I think you need to re-read the question then. I'm not sure what choice other than "yes" or "no" there is to "would you support the repeal of Obama's healthcare legislation?".

Also, if you read my original post, I ask for details regarding the gray areas I think you're referring to.

Aramike · 11-05-10, 01:05 AM

Oh, and an aside: part of my motivation for this thread was to do a poll that shows how GT isn't predominantly conservative or liberal in its thinking, as I tire of reading time and time again from people on both sides how their ideas are not gaining any traction because the whole board is against them.

View Poll Results: Would you support the repeal of Obama's healthcare legislation?
Yes	17	50.00%
No	17	50.00%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

11-04-10, 04:08 PM	#18
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Im basically tired of "certain members of society" getting their free ride. __________________

11-04-10, 05:04 PM	#20
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,369 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	This poll is not valid as it does not give us all the choices. Why would anyone think this question can be answered with only those two options. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

11-04-10, 06:31 PM	#23
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,321 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	Even if you work and live within your means, how can you afford not to have health insurance? I have insurance, but if I didn't, I would be very hard put to pay the $60,000.00 it cost to have my wifes broken ankle repaired. $7,300.00 for the ER visit and $56,000.00 for the surgery. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

11-04-10, 06:52 PM	#26
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,369 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	A few years ago, The Frau had to get some surgery that was not covered by insurance. Once the doctor understood that we were paying cash, the "cost" of the operation dropped significantly.. as in less than half. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

11-05-10, 01:05 AM	#30
Aramike Ocean Warrior Best of SUBSIM Chairman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 3,207 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	Oh, and an aside: part of my motivation for this thread was to do a poll that shows how GT isn't predominantly conservative or liberal in its thinking, as I tire of reading time and time again from people on both sides how their ideas are not gaining any traction because the whole board is against them.