Annoyed with visuals in TMO RSRD

[Bubblehead1980]

So apparently RSRD gives its escorts and warships some super vision.

December 18, 1941 off Wake Island, found a task force with four heavy cruisers but can never get close because they spot me LONG before my watch spots them.I mean subs even in great daytime conditions were tough to spot on surface.Too early for them to have radar.

Same with a Type A/B in Feb 1944, spotted me at 7 miles away during daylight on surface, but I got to 2400 yards for a night surface attack.Seems my deckwatch is blind and they have super vision, aggravating because cant get close to the Wake Island TF.

[Armistead]

It's almost like they have surface radar, they shouldn't be able to see you, but come right at you from 10-12nms away, but if you turn and run, they'll head back. Thats more like radar, except I don't think they had it this early.

BTW, what does this group consist of, time, ect...

[Ducimus]

Units max visual distance is based off of what type of unit it is in TMO.

Hard numbers off the top of my head that i usually don't spout out (cause its like a major spoiler)

- Merchants max visual distance is meant to be 6,000 meters.
- Escorts (DD/ DE), max visual distance is meant to be 9,000 meters.
- Capital warships, (BB, CVE, CV, etc) is intended to be.. offhand.. i think about 12 or 14 000 meters, i forget. Probably 12.
- Planes have a massive visual distance that would make you crap your pants. Around 30 KM if memory serves.

Note i said, "meant to be" or "intended". The max visual range specified in the data/library/AI_Visuals.dat isn't the range they actually see at. Due to various environmental effects you actually have to overcompensate to get the desired daytime detection radius. For example, if I want a tin can to be able to detect me at 9,000 meters if im doing something stupid like crusing at 15 knots with my broadsides to him, then I may have to set the detection radius up to 10,000 meters, 10,500, or even 11,000 in order to illicit a response at 9,000 meters. night time is a different story, Max distance, i believe is hardcoded to be 60% of what it is in the day time if memory serves correctly. And even then, detection range will vary depending on envirmental variables like wind and fog, both in day or night. This is why detection can vary so much. I tended to adjust max detection range based on clear/calm weather.

( This is why enviormental mods screw up the AI detection settings. Just FYI. )

If RSRD changes the visuals, or the enviormnment, i have no idea. I'm just saying what *I* set them at.

[WernherVonTrapp]

I don't know the exact distances you're referring to here Bubblehead but, that's not necessarily inaccurate or unrealistic. Japanese optics and night engagement training was superior to ours, early on. I've heard accounts by some historian that Japanese optics (day or night) even sometimes outranged U.S. radar equipped vessels.

[tater]

There is an AI_Visual_Sensors_RSRDC.dat in RSRDC. Perhaps it's not tweaked to the latest TMO for compliance.

[tater]

http://www.filefront.com/17359843/TM..._for_RSRDC.rar

A more TMO compliant version. The CA and BB sensors are longer range than TMO has, but that might be for the battles in game to actually work at reasonable distances.

I reset the fishing, merchant, and escort values in line with what I saw in the TMO 2.0 AI_Sensors.dat. Install after RSRDC.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

I don't know the exact distances you're referring to here Bubblehead but, that's not necessarily inaccurate or unrealistic. Japanese optics and night engagement training was superior to ours, early on. I've heard accounts by some historian that Japanese optics (day or night) even sometimes outranged U.S. radar equipped vessels.

Thing is some subs like the Barb attacked cruisers and even carriers on the surface at night, got close too, talking less than 2,000 yards and were not spotted.Subs were very difficult to see, even with great optics.Hell Barb and Tang(I know of, sure others did) attacked convoys with radar equipped escorts and were able to get in close since IJN radar was not exactly the best.

Wish things like this were reflected in say RSRD. I think the effective range for IJN radar on escorts should be 4,000 yards...this wont let you get too close but within distance.If I knew how, I'd set it up but I do not nor do I have time to learn, I barely get to play as it is.

This was just super aggravating because I'd find the Wake Island forces but coulndt get close bc they would spot me long before I could.Should be other way around to be honest. Not sure where Lurker is these days, havent seen him post, but think RSRD needs some upgrading.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Thing is some subs like the Barb attacked cruisers and even carriers on the surface at night, got close too, talking less than 2,000 yards and were not spotted.Subs were very difficult to see, even with great optics.Hell Barb and Tang(I know of, sure others did) attacked convoys with radar equipped escorts and were able to get in close since IJN radar was not exactly the best.

Wish things like this were reflected in say RSRD. I think the effective range for IJN radar on escorts should be 4,000 yards...this wont let you get too close but within distance.If I knew how, I'd set it up but I do not nor do I have time to learn, I barely get to play as it is.

This was just super aggravating because I'd find the Wake Island forces but coulndt get close bc they would spot me long before I could.Should be other way around to be honest. Not sure where Lurker is these days, havent seen him post, but think RSRD needs some upgrading.

Yup, you're right, I even read a particular account in my WWII Radar History book (can't remember which sub) of a surface attack against a convoy escorted by at least 1 IJN DD that had radar. The lack of a radar PPI prevented the DD from zeroing in on the attacking sub that marauded through their ranks sinking the merchants. Sub got away clean too, still on the surface.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Units max visual distance is based off of what type of unit it is in TMO.

Hard numbers off the top of my head that i usually don't spout out (cause its like a major spoiler)

- Merchants max visual distance is meant to be 6,000 meters.
- Escorts (DD/ DE), max visual distance is meant to be 9,000 meters.
- Capital warships, (BB, CVE, CV, etc) is intended to be.. offhand.. i think about 12 or 14 000 meters, i forget. Probably 12.
- Planes have a massive visual distance that would make you crap your pants. Around 30 KM if memory serves.

Note i said, "meant to be" or "intended". The max visual range specified in the data/library/AI_Visuals.dat isn't the range they actually see at. Due to various environmental effects you actually have to overcompensate to get the desired daytime detection radius. For example, if I want a tin can to be able to detect me at 9,000 meters if im doing something stupid like crusing at 15 knots with my broadsides to him, then I may have to set the detection radius up to 10,000 meters, 10,500, or even 11,000 in order to illicit a response at 9,000 meters. night time is a different story, Max distance, i believe is hardcoded to be 60% of what it is in the day time if memory serves correctly. And even then, detection range will vary depending on envirmental variables like wind and fog, both in day or night. This is why detection can vary so much. I tended to adjust max detection range based on clear/calm weather.

( This is why enviormental mods screw up the AI detection settings. Just FYI. )

If RSRD changes the visuals, or the enviormnment, i have no idea. I'm just saying what *I* set them at.

Duci, your settings are fine, RSRD changes them, going to try Taters new patch, hopefully itll work this issue out.

[tater]

Visuals all need to be tightly tweaked to the supermod, it's all connected.

There are some errors in cfg dates for some of the groups in RSRDC I found working on JMM. That could explain it.

OK, those are easy to fix. Some of the sensor start dates are based on the idea that the unit will not appear before said date. Trouble is a single cfg date problem, and they are crippled. Fix inbound.

[tater]

http://www.filefront.com/17359898/Fi...onar_RSRDC.rar

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Armistead

It's almost like they have surface radar, they shouldn't be able to see you, but come right at you from 10-12nms away, but if you turn and run, they'll head back. Thats more like radar, except I don't think they had it this early.

BTW, what does this group consist of, time, ect...

Well Group 1 was four heavy cruisers(believe all were Furataka's but never got close enough for positive idea, just saw them from 7,000 yards via attack scope, close as I could get before they made a zig and moved away.Also had DD's which would spot me and force me to dive and evade, spotted me from miles away, long before I could, which is why i made this post, annoying.

Second Group had DD's, cruisers and large merchants...invasion force.