Energy efficient bulbs affecting your health? - Page 2

Skybird · 09-21-10, 05:38 PM

I knew that the elektromagnetic fields produced by these bulbs can be up too 200 times as intense in energy than those of regular lightbulbs of same brightness (that'S why you shoulds keep your distance to them), but that it also is a different quality of electromagnetic field, was new to me.

The headache thing is known since longer, although for political and business reasons it still is officially denied.

MS, asthma and blood sugar also was knew for me, I mean that it can have so immense effects.

Don'T like these things too muich, I still find their loight colour annoying. Their warm-white simply is not warm-white with a sufficient degree of waves transporting the colour red, but it makes colours shifting towards the green and spectrum. I have two such things in use, but only in the cellar and in a corridor.

The future is LED, and LEDs in spots replacing halogen spots with reflectors are already really usable, the good ones have a warmwhite light like you know it from Halogen light, and are of comparable brightness. These ones also do not distort the colopur spectrum as massively as energy saving bulbs do (turning red into brown and yellow into green, even the wellknown, expensive brands). Problem is they are extremely expensive, still. LED-collections in normal lightbulbs still are not really convincing: not bright enough. But its getting better. LEDs in torchlights: beats every normal lightbulbed torchlight. General rule: you do not need a dozen LEDs, you only need one LED - but that must be a real good one, then it is good light colour (not that terrible cold blue-white), and shining brightness.

Light quality is life quality, and very important to me in order to feel comfortable and "at home". I do not accept compromises in light, at least not in my living room and kitchen. If halogen would not be available anymore and standard lightbulbs also gone, I would cry and spend the money needed for good LEDs - but no energy efficient bulbs.

SteamWake · 09-21-10, 05:57 PM

"Quality" of EM field... LOL that term just cracks me up. Just conjurs up an image of two hams "Yea your getting out but you sound like crap".

As I said in an earlier post that pepole have been living within RF fields for decades. They have been living in EM fields since the beginning of time.

Its all over the spectrum. Shall I post a picture of my Oscope set for a low voltage and show you the noise? Its so prevelant that its actually hard to block it out. You know that psssssssshhhhh you hear when you tune your TV to an unused channel? EM/RF signals. Oh and while were at it that TV of yours? Try holding the plug of an amplified speaker up to one sometime. You want to talk about strong EMI fields. "Dont sit too close or your hurt your eyes" my mother used to say.

Now there is no question that a strong RF field can cause damage it is after all how a microwave works. But there is strong RF fields in the order of microvolts and theres strong RF fields of 600watts or more in the radar range. Yes I know there different units of measure but trying to explain that would take too long. In a nutshell the EMI/RF field within a microwave is 10's of thousands time more powerfull than stray emi/rf from a compact fluorescent. Hell there are wall chargers that put out more noise than CFLs.

Remember all that hoopla about schools and homes being built adjacent HV transmission lines? Where has that gone?

Oh and I wanted to add about the headache thing. It is quite true that all fluroescent lamps 'strobe' one in good working order should strobe so fast you never notice. But some pepole are subsectible to strobing effects. Remember those epelipsy warnings on video games? So sure I believe that some pepole can get headaches from poor lighting. Properly working 'quality' flourescent lamps with the proper 'quality' ballast should strobe so quickly that even the most sensative amongst us would not be effected by it. Notice the word quality. There is a lot of cheap crap out there. The industry is driven by being 'inexpensive'. But once more addressing strobing this is where LEDs are superior ... but only with a 'quality' driver.

Sammi79 · 09-21-10, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

As to the motivation about this report? I'm going to presume that A:Scare tactics draw in viewers and B:The push is on to move to LED.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

The future is LED

Sold!

Zachstar · 09-21-10, 06:11 PM

Oh my geez not this again.

I have heard it all.

"It creates an EM field that will harm you"

BULL! You have any idea how about EM a body will absorb every day? Every Bird in Orbit overhead, Every TV and Radio station every mobile comm.

The only way an EM field at such low wattage can harm you is if you are RIGHT against it. I mean head to bulb or ANY device. For that matter. My computer creates high levels of EM that is why computers are required to be in cases. Not for heath but because the EM can interfere with radio.

"It creates tons of UV light that will cook you"

That is blowing a small issue WAY out of proportion.

LAWs do not allow bulbs to be sold in the US if the UV exposure over time is dangerous. CFLs let loose a LITTLE UV that does not get absorbed and reemitted from the phosphor layer. This is a direct attribute to the efficiency of a bulb in my opinion. Better the layer better the bulb less the tiny UV. Also to counter this further a new layer is being added to absord UV and STORE the energy to turn the bulb into sort of a glow in the dark emergency light in the case of a power failure.

Also a little extra UV wont kill you. And may help save you in fact as UV is harmful to microbial life.

Now all this is starting to get Moot anyway. LEDs will be the big item to have in 2012 beyond anyway.

SteamWake · 09-21-10, 06:21 PM

UV light in order of highest emmisions to least (omitting UV lamps of course and HID sources)

Halogen (some call it xenon)
Fluorescent
Incandescent
LED (depends on which but all are tight specturm)

You can actually physically tell the Halogen is a high emitter at this end of the spectrum because they get so hot they will remove your fingerprints if you grab one thats been on a while. Dont ask

Skybird · 09-21-10, 06:25 PM

A constant energetic level fluctuating at a rythmic sinus wave is not the same like a random patterns of extreme spikes. Yes, electromagnetism is all around us, inside of us, we even radiate ourselves, our bodies do. But that means nothing relating the issue here.

Radiation issues get both overestimated by some (greens and health hysterics), and underestimated by others (conservatives, lobbyists, lifestyle surfers). Technical, artificial radiation sources often do not compare in intensity, spiking behavior and "quality" (regular or irregular frequency forming, I do not know the tehcncial terms in English), and consequences from them can show up soon - or 20 years later, in form of cancer for example.

It's good advise to play it careful, and not handling radiationsources, from cellphones to electrosmog, too carelessly. It is energy you are dealing with, and possibly this enegry can effect and change your body's organic tissue or your body'S natural electromagnetic field and the neural system, and brain. So don't become hysteric, but also do noit become careless or unaware, uncautious.

The US military btw has intrdocued a helmet, I read some days ago, that builds a magnetic field thnbat should relax the brain of the soldier wearing it, helping him to form better decisions under stress, and as a cautionary measure against combat stress. I wonder if stuff like this really is a good idea. We know too little, and the brain'S functioning, storage od data, and the forming of mind, emotion and intellect still is a mystery. I would hate to let a lobby group with special interest manipulate my brain'S electromagnetic field and electric activity. especially when it is the military. It has used troops as white mice too often in the past.

SteamWake · 09-21-10, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

The US military btw has intrdocued a helmet, I read some days ago, that builds a magnetic field thnbat should relax the brain of the soldier wearing it, .

Oh man that is soooo 60's...

Skybird · 09-22-10, 05:34 AM

I must correct myself: not magnetic fields but ultrasound is being used, I recalled it wrong. Ultrasound is said to be 5 times as precise in stimulating targetted brain areas. It is not only meant for relaxation, but also for activating "virtues" found to be useful in combat.

XabbaRus · 09-22-10, 01:10 PM

OK that they can introduce harmonics into the supply, well a lot of things do that. Anything connected into the supply can affect its frequency.

That's why you have devices that smooth out the supply, either capcitors or certain kinds of motors.

I'm studying electrical engineering at the moment and will have to go digging through my books but I think this is a bit of scare mongering.

SteamWake · 09-22-10, 01:31 PM

You want to see harmonics take a look at variable frequency drives...

Ive seen them 'melt' neutrals.

The newer ones are alot better but those old SCR chopping VFD's were a nightmare.

Another big contributer to harmonics are PC's yup good old computers. Get enough of them on one phase and you will see why they design systems with 200% neutrals.

XabbaRus · 09-22-10, 02:04 PM

I found this whilst looking at it.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=6897

I'm looking for other stuff. Though from what I am reading a lot of what skybird and this yotube video claims is scare tactics.

Gerald · 09-22-10, 03:01 PM

If you want to avoid being adversely affected by its frequency, as the gentlemen above have outlined, there are safer alternatives now a past, we are exposed to various types of radiation / frequencies on a daily basis and some are much more 'dangerous' one ordinary light bulb,low energy is a examples of small radiation

tater · 09-22-10, 03:25 PM

Yep. Looks like she's a crackpot. Typical. She can tour with Wakefield.

Alex · 09-22-10, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I've done my own research on this concept and drawn my own conclusion. I have done what uncle sam insisted and filled my house with these things... but this report has me second guessing that choice.

With all due respect :

It looks pretty much like some (you're not the only one at least, GR) Americans have an unwavering faith in "Uncle Sam".

I don't mean that's bad !
But you guys have a brain too, you know. And you don't have to take what your government/economy/anyone tells you for granted.

I personally have an unwavering faith in my own ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

thoughts?

Next time, don't forget to do your research first.

XabbaRus · 09-22-10, 04:18 PM

Well the Electromagnetic Field is a non starter. It drops of very quickly with range so given your light bulb is going to be a good 5ft away from you and given the relatively small amount of power going through it you aren't going to get much electromagnetic field.

I'll have to look in my books to find the formulas for working out how much Electromagnetic Field is generated but it will be negligable.

You think how much of a field you need to generate to attract a lump of metal over a distance of a few feet. Strong and stronger than that generated by a CFL.

09-21-10, 05:38 PM	#16
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I knew that the elektromagnetic fields produced by these bulbs can be up too 200 times as intense in energy than those of regular lightbulbs of same brightness (that'S why you shoulds keep your distance to them), but that it also is a different quality of electromagnetic field, was new to me. The headache thing is known since longer, although for political and business reasons it still is officially denied. MS, asthma and blood sugar also was knew for me, I mean that it can have so immense effects. Don'T like these things too muich, I still find their loight colour annoying. Their warm-white simply is not warm-white with a sufficient degree of waves transporting the colour red, but it makes colours shifting towards the green and spectrum. I have two such things in use, but only in the cellar and in a corridor. The future is LED, and LEDs in spots replacing halogen spots with reflectors are already really usable, the good ones have a warmwhite light like you know it from Halogen light, and are of comparable brightness. These ones also do not distort the colopur spectrum as massively as energy saving bulbs do (turning red into brown and yellow into green, even the wellknown, expensive brands). Problem is they are extremely expensive, still. LED-collections in normal lightbulbs still are not really convincing: not bright enough. But its getting better. LEDs in torchlights: beats every normal lightbulbed torchlight. General rule: you do not need a dozen LEDs, you only need one LED - but that must be a real good one, then it is good light colour (not that terrible cold blue-white), and shining brightness. Light quality is life quality, and very important to me in order to feel comfortable and "at home". I do not accept compromises in light, at least not in my living room and kitchen. If halogen would not be available anymore and standard lightbulbs also gone, I would cry and spend the money needed for good LEDs - but no energy efficient bulbs. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-21-10, 05:57 PM	#17
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	"Quality" of EM field... LOL that term just cracks me up. Just conjurs up an image of two hams "Yea your getting out but you sound like crap". As I said in an earlier post that pepole have been living within RF fields for decades. They have been living in EM fields since the beginning of time. Its all over the spectrum. Shall I post a picture of my Oscope set for a low voltage and show you the noise? Its so prevelant that its actually hard to block it out. You know that psssssssshhhhh you hear when you tune your TV to an unused channel? EM/RF signals. Oh and while were at it that TV of yours? Try holding the plug of an amplified speaker up to one sometime. You want to talk about strong EMI fields. "Dont sit too close or your hurt your eyes" my mother used to say. Now there is no question that a strong RF field can cause damage it is after all how a microwave works. But there is strong RF fields in the order of microvolts and theres strong RF fields of 600watts or more in the radar range. Yes I know there different units of measure but trying to explain that would take too long. In a nutshell the EMI/RF field within a microwave is 10's of thousands time more powerfull than stray emi/rf from a compact fluorescent. Hell there are wall chargers that put out more noise than CFLs. Remember all that hoopla about schools and homes being built adjacent HV transmission lines? Where has that gone? Oh and I wanted to add about the headache thing. It is quite true that all fluroescent lamps 'strobe' one in good working order should strobe so fast you never notice. But some pepole are subsectible to strobing effects. Remember those epelipsy warnings on video games? So sure I believe that some pepole can get headaches from poor lighting. Properly working 'quality' flourescent lamps with the proper 'quality' ballast should strobe so quickly that even the most sensative amongst us would not be effected by it. Notice the word quality. There is a lot of cheap crap out there. The industry is driven by being 'inexpensive'. But once more addressing strobing this is where LEDs are superior ... but only with a 'quality' driver. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

09-21-10, 06:11 PM	#19
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Oh my geez not this again. I have heard it all. "It creates an EM field that will harm you" BULL! You have any idea how about EM a body will absorb every day? Every Bird in Orbit overhead, Every TV and Radio station every mobile comm. The only way an EM field at such low wattage can harm you is if you are RIGHT against it. I mean head to bulb or ANY device. For that matter. My computer creates high levels of EM that is why computers are required to be in cases. Not for heath but because the EM can interfere with radio. "It creates tons of UV light that will cook you" That is blowing a small issue WAY out of proportion. LAWs do not allow bulbs to be sold in the US if the UV exposure over time is dangerous. CFLs let loose a LITTLE UV that does not get absorbed and reemitted from the phosphor layer. This is a direct attribute to the efficiency of a bulb in my opinion. Better the layer better the bulb less the tiny UV. Also to counter this further a new layer is being added to absord UV and STORE the energy to turn the bulb into sort of a glow in the dark emergency light in the case of a power failure. Also a little extra UV wont kill you. And may help save you in fact as UV is harmful to microbial life. Now all this is starting to get Moot anyway. LEDs will be the big item to have in 2012 beyond anyway. __________________

09-21-10, 06:21 PM	#20
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	UV light in order of highest emmisions to least (omitting UV lamps of course and HID sources) Halogen (some call it xenon) Fluorescent Incandescent LED (depends on which but all are tight specturm) You can actually physically tell the Halogen is a high emitter at this end of the spectrum because they get so hot they will remove your fingerprints if you grab one thats been on a while. Dont ask __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

09-21-10, 06:25 PM	#21
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	A constant energetic level fluctuating at a rythmic sinus wave is not the same like a random patterns of extreme spikes. Yes, electromagnetism is all around us, inside of us, we even radiate ourselves, our bodies do. But that means nothing relating the issue here. Radiation issues get both overestimated by some (greens and health hysterics), and underestimated by others (conservatives, lobbyists, lifestyle surfers). Technical, artificial radiation sources often do not compare in intensity, spiking behavior and "quality" (regular or irregular frequency forming, I do not know the tehcncial terms in English), and consequences from them can show up soon - or 20 years later, in form of cancer for example. It's good advise to play it careful, and not handling radiationsources, from cellphones to electrosmog, too carelessly. It is energy you are dealing with, and possibly this enegry can effect and change your body's organic tissue or your body'S natural electromagnetic field and the neural system, and brain. So don't become hysteric, but also do noit become careless or unaware, uncautious. The US military btw has intrdocued a helmet, I read some days ago, that builds a magnetic field thnbat should relax the brain of the soldier wearing it, helping him to form better decisions under stress, and as a cautionary measure against combat stress. I wonder if stuff like this really is a good idea. We know too little, and the brain'S functioning, storage od data, and the forming of mind, emotion and intellect still is a mystery. I would hate to let a lobby group with special interest manipulate my brain'S electromagnetic field and electric activity. especially when it is the military. It has used troops as white mice too often in the past. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 09-22-10 at 05:35 AM.

09-22-10, 05:34 AM	#23
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I must correct myself: not magnetic fields but ultrasound is being used, I recalled it wrong. Ultrasound is said to be 5 times as precise in stimulating targetted brain areas. It is not only meant for relaxation, but also for activating "virtues" found to be useful in combat. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-22-10, 01:10 PM	#24
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	OK that they can introduce harmonics into the supply, well a lot of things do that. Anything connected into the supply can affect its frequency. That's why you have devices that smooth out the supply, either capcitors or certain kinds of motors. I'm studying electrical engineering at the moment and will have to go digging through my books but I think this is a bit of scare mongering. __________________

09-22-10, 01:31 PM	#25
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	You want to see harmonics take a look at variable frequency drives... Ive seen them 'melt' neutrals. The newer ones are alot better but those old SCR chopping VFD's were a nightmare. Another big contributer to harmonics are PC's yup good old computers. Get enough of them on one phase and you will see why they design systems with 200% neutrals. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

09-22-10, 02:04 PM	#26
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I found this whilst looking at it. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=6897 I'm looking for other stuff. Though from what I am reading a lot of what skybird and this yotube video claims is scare tactics. __________________

09-22-10, 03:01 PM	#27
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	If you want to avoid being adversely affected by its frequency, as the gentlemen above have outlined, there are safer alternatives now a past, we are exposed to various types of radiation / frequencies on a daily basis and some are much more 'dangerous' one ordinary light bulb,low energy is a examples of small radiation __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

09-22-10, 03:25 PM	#28
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yep. Looks like she's a crackpot. Typical. She can tour with Wakefield.

09-22-10, 04:18 PM	#30
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Well the Electromagnetic Field is a non starter. It drops of very quickly with range so given your light bulb is going to be a good 5ft away from you and given the relatively small amount of power going through it you aren't going to get much electromagnetic field. I'll have to look in my books to find the formulas for working out how much Electromagnetic Field is generated but it will be negligable. You think how much of a field you need to generate to attract a lump of metal over a distance of a few feet. Strong and stronger than that generated by a CFL. __________________