Juat a rant, ignore me - Page 2

Platapus · 08-25-10, 03:00 PM

There is one advantage of using a credit card - security

This happened to me one week ago. I have one credit card that I pay off every month. Last week, I opened up my credit card statement and found a bunch of charges made in PA (I don't do PA). Gosh, what a problem....for the credit card company, not me.

I hoped on the phone, all the fraudulent charges are taken off my account, the account was closed and a new credit card was issued to me. Had to send in a signed form (did not even have to pay the postage). Sure I went four days without a credit card and survived.

This is why I use my credit card for almost all my purchases. The risk is on the part of the credit card company. That's what I am not paying interest for when I pay off the account every month.

I was glad the credit card people found a solution to their problem of fraudulent charges.

Takeda Shingen · 08-25-10, 03:11 PM

Jim and Platapus are indeed correct; you do get a decent amount of protection from fraud and identity theft, something that debit cards generally do not have.

Tchocky · 08-25-10, 03:13 PM

I have 3 credit cards. Recently I had 4. I should probably explain that.

Right, card one is my standard Irish credit card, used for Steam, internet purchases and the like. It gets a fair amount of use and has never seen an interest charge.

Card #2 is my Dutch card. I didn't ask for one, it came with the account. Nice to have in an emergency I guess. It sits in my locker, gathering dust with licences and medical certs.

Card #3 is a MasterCard prepaid. I use this because it carries no €5 processing fee when booking Ryanair. With Dublin being a major hub I'm in and out a lot, and if the flight costs €12 then an extra €5 is something to be avoided.

Card #4 is a Visa Electron, which used to carry no processing fee with Ryanair. Needless to say, this card ain't used no more, cap'n

Ducimus · 08-25-10, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Jim and Platapus are indeed correct; you do get a decent amount of protection from fraud and identity theft, something that debit cards generally do not have.

Yeah I found that out the other month when my bank locked down my debit card when a "mass compromise" occured and didn't bother to tell me about it. If it had been my credit card, i would have had an automated phone call within 10 minutes of the lock down.

jumpy · 08-25-10, 04:32 PM

ha, credit cards... I have one with a modest amount outstanding.
Thing is, I never used it for anything I couldn't already afford (like others in this thread), until the recession bit my work and home life and then I had no choice if I wanted to keep a roof over my head. It's ironic that I never needed the use of a credit card until everything went tits up with the economy, then I had no choice.

This morning the bank sent me a letter reducing the amount of credit I can use, why this should be I don't know, since the amount outstanding on the card is greatly less than a quarter of my previous 'credit limit'. So, as there's a lack of jobs and income and ever increasing utility costs my margin for error or emergency to tide me over is gone now.

Banks; they'll give you an umbrella when it's sunny, then ask for it back when it starts to rain.

Fact is, if banks were not so damn greedy in the first place in lending to people who couldn't afford it, people who live in a consumer driven world where every measure of success is material in origin, then the banks wouldn't have fallen on their faces when their creditors decided they wanted to be paid up... to value a business or industry based on the potential value of all the cash it is owed is not the same as its true value in assets. Which fool thought that was a good idea needs shooting. But it's an idea that is so pervasive that even if you had no credit debt as an individual before the recession, chances are you probably do now because it was either that or have no gas or electricity supply (that's what my credit card was used for recently).

I lost my job and a respectable income because of something that was caused by other people; part of my home life was turned upside down due to this extra pressure. The jobs that are available round here as what I call 'non-jobs' of too few hours and negligible pay when stacked against the most basic necessities of providing food shelter and warmth... hehe, even if I sold everything I own and reduced my life to its barest minimum, it would only stave off the wolves from my door for perhaps another month.

For me the trap of credit use is that I only used it because I had no other choice and no sensible recourse to debt that was calling at my door no matter what I did. I don't like it... in fact I hate it.
I'd still be at my old job if it were not for the recession and this obsession with exponential profit/growth that banks, governments and company bosses seem to think is good. I'd still be there earning and paying tax and spending and saving - all my savings are gone, lost to the recession and my options are reduced so much I can scarcely believe it myself. It can only be a damn economist who thinks perpetual growth is a sensible goal.... whatever happened to the idea of sustainability in business and banking? Has the world gone totally mad with greed?

yubba · 08-25-10, 04:37 PM

Well if they are stupid enough to give me money

jumpy · 08-25-10, 04:47 PM

^^
hehe

If only that was the whole story with banks though.

My credit debt was not caused by unfettered spending above my means... at least until my means were taken away lol, then it was use the credit card or live in the dark, or outdoors in a cardboard box.

I wonder how true this is for many people who are living with the cost of the recession when they were prudent and conservative in their spending and saving habits - ie what was traditionally defined as good banking customers?

Platapus · 08-25-10, 04:55 PM

Blaming banks for lending people money is like blaming McDonalds for making people fat.

GoldenRivet · 08-25-10, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Blaming banks for lending people money is like blaming McDonalds for making people fat.

I see your point, but its not entirely accurate, i mean those two things are not entirely comparable are they?

If i were to have 2 individuals asking me to lend them money...

the man with an excellent history of paying his debts and making good on his promises.

and the man with a history of accruing debt and rarely if ever paying it back.

which one should i lend to?

banks should lend responsibly... this is why we have credit scores yes?

surely you can see that lending money to people without credit checks, without proof of income, without a social security number and without down payment is a terrible idea... (we have all heard these programs on commercials from banks and various lending institutions) especially when the money you are loaning out belongs to other people (by way of various accounts and investments etc)

the other end of the spectrum - much like your McDonalds analogy is that people should borrow responsibly just as they should eat responsibly.

but people with good dieting and nutritional habits are not born... they are educated to make those choices... just as good borrowers and investors are not born either, they are educated to do so, and i think a LOT of people these days are very uneducated when it comes to lending, borrowing and the whole credit situation.

Platapus · 08-25-10, 06:23 PM

McDonalds should not sell me a Big Mac when they see how fat I am.

As long as the bank is not engaged in deceptive practices (and some have), it is my position that it is the borrower's responsibility to understand the agreement and to choose to agree to ALL of its terms, especially the part where they have to pay it back.

But I can see your point also (and it is a good one too)

GoldenRivet · 08-25-10, 07:04 PM

well let us just agree to this.

loans are like marriage.

There are two parties involved in the process... and both parties have to be aware of what they are jumping into in order for it to work.

CCIP · 08-25-10, 07:47 PM

It really is an underlying cultural problem, an attitude problem if you will. Loans are a great idea as a tool for developing business or for making individual investments (e.g. into education or real estate). In emergency cases, perhaps they're acceptable. But using personal loans to support a lifestyle is imho pretty much criminally absurd. Sadly for every advertisement telling people they can get rid of their loans without paying, there is also an advertisement telling them that their MasterCard is "for everything else", with the underlying marketing for many credit cards generally being very lifestyle-focused.

That's the other side of the coin, I guess. As a culture, we've really lost track of what loans are for.

08-25-10, 03:00 PM	#16
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,393 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	There is one advantage of using a credit card - security This happened to me one week ago. I have one credit card that I pay off every month. Last week, I opened up my credit card statement and found a bunch of charges made in PA (I don't do PA). Gosh, what a problem....for the credit card company, not me. I hoped on the phone, all the fraudulent charges are taken off my account, the account was closed and a new credit card was issued to me. Had to send in a signed form (did not even have to pay the postage). Sure I went four days without a credit card and survived. This is why I use my credit card for almost all my purchases. The risk is on the part of the credit card company. That's what I am not paying interest for when I pay off the account every month. I was glad the credit card people found a solution to their problem of fraudulent charges. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

08-25-10, 03:13 PM	#18
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I have 3 credit cards. Recently I had 4. I should probably explain that. Right, card one is my standard Irish credit card, used for Steam, internet purchases and the like. It gets a fair amount of use and has never seen an interest charge. Card #2 is my Dutch card. I didn't ask for one, it came with the account. Nice to have in an emergency I guess. It sits in my locker, gathering dust with licences and medical certs. Card #3 is a MasterCard prepaid. I use this because it carries no €5 processing fee when booking Ryanair. With Dublin being a major hub I'm in and out a lot, and if the flight costs €12 then an extra €5 is something to be avoided. Card #4 is a Visa Electron, which used to carry no processing fee with Ryanair. Needless to say, this card ain't used no more, cap'n __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

08-25-10, 04:32 PM	#20
jumpy Admiral Join Date: May 2003 Location: Midlands, UK Posts: 2,139 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	ha, credit cards... I have one with a modest amount outstanding. Thing is, I never used it for anything I couldn't already afford (like others in this thread), until the recession bit my work and home life and then I had no choice if I wanted to keep a roof over my head. It's ironic that I never needed the use of a credit card until everything went tits up with the economy, then I had no choice. This morning the bank sent me a letter reducing the amount of credit I can use, why this should be I don't know, since the amount outstanding on the card is greatly less than a quarter of my previous 'credit limit'. So, as there's a lack of jobs and income and ever increasing utility costs my margin for error or emergency to tide me over is gone now. Banks; they'll give you an umbrella when it's sunny, then ask for it back when it starts to rain. Fact is, if banks were not so damn greedy in the first place in lending to people who couldn't afford it, people who live in a consumer driven world where every measure of success is material in origin, then the banks wouldn't have fallen on their faces when their creditors decided they wanted to be paid up... to value a business or industry based on the potential value of all the cash it is owed is not the same as its true value in assets. Which fool thought that was a good idea needs shooting. But it's an idea that is so pervasive that even if you had no credit debt as an individual before the recession, chances are you probably do now because it was either that or have no gas or electricity supply (that's what my credit card was used for recently). I lost my job and a respectable income because of something that was caused by other people; part of my home life was turned upside down due to this extra pressure. The jobs that are available round here as what I call 'non-jobs' of too few hours and negligible pay when stacked against the most basic necessities of providing food shelter and warmth... hehe, even if I sold everything I own and reduced my life to its barest minimum, it would only stave off the wolves from my door for perhaps another month. For me the trap of credit use is that I only used it because I had no other choice and no sensible recourse to debt that was calling at my door no matter what I did. I don't like it... in fact I hate it. I'd still be at my old job if it were not for the recession and this obsession with exponential profit/growth that banks, governments and company bosses seem to think is good. I'd still be there earning and paying tax and spending and saving - all my savings are gone, lost to the recession and my options are reduced so much I can scarcely believe it myself. It can only be a damn economist who thinks perpetual growth is a sensible goal.... whatever happened to the idea of sustainability in business and banking? Has the world gone totally mad with greed? __________________ when you’ve been so long in the desert, any water, no matter how brackish, looks like life

08-25-10, 04:47 PM	#22
jumpy Admiral Join Date: May 2003 Location: Midlands, UK Posts: 2,139 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	^^ hehe If only that was the whole story with banks though. My credit debt was not caused by unfettered spending above my means... at least until my means were taken away lol, then it was use the credit card or live in the dark, or outdoors in a cardboard box. I wonder how true this is for many people who are living with the cost of the recession when they were prudent and conservative in their spending and saving habits - ie what was traditionally defined as good banking customers? __________________ when you’ve been so long in the desert, any water, no matter how brackish, looks like life

08-25-10, 04:55 PM	#23
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,393 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Blaming banks for lending people money is like blaming McDonalds for making people fat. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

08-25-10, 03:11 PM	#17
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Jim and Platapus are indeed correct; you do get a decent amount of protection from fraud and identity theft, something that debit cards generally do not have.

08-25-10, 04:37 PM	#21
yubba Admiral Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: in a neighborhood near you Posts: 2,478 Downloads: 293 Uploads: 2	Well if they are stupid enough to give me money

08-25-10, 06:23 PM	#25
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,393 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	McDonalds should not sell me a Big Mac when they see how fat I am. As long as the bank is not engaged in deceptive practices (and some have), it is my position that it is the borrower's responsibility to understand the agreement and to choose to agree to ALL of its terms, especially the part where they have to pay it back. But I can see your point also (and it is a good one too) __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

08-25-10, 07:04 PM	#26
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	well let us just agree to this. loans are like marriage. There are two parties involved in the process... and both parties have to be aware of what they are jumping into in order for it to work. __________________

08-25-10, 07:47 PM	#27
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	It really is an underlying cultural problem, an attitude problem if you will. Loans are a great idea as a tool for developing business or for making individual investments (e.g. into education or real estate). In emergency cases, perhaps they're acceptable. But using personal loans to support a lifestyle is imho pretty much criminally absurd. Sadly for every advertisement telling people they can get rid of their loans without paying, there is also an advertisement telling them that their MasterCard is "for everything else", with the underlying marketing for many credit cards generally being very lifestyle-focused. That's the other side of the coin, I guess. As a culture, we've really lost track of what loans are for. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)