Guy in Cumbria goes nuts,shoots a bunch

[Schroeder]

My condolences to the families of killed people.

[Steel_Tomb]

The thing that annoys me is that tragedies like this will spur on the Government to bring in some rushed through policy that will penalise the honest gun owners in this country... like me... who comply with all the exceedingly strict laws and regulations, whilst letting all the scum keep theirs because they don't know where it is. Take the handgun ban for instance... do you really think the criminals handed in their weapons like good old chaps? No, it was the honest people who went through the lengthy process of getting their FAC that got shafted. I love to shoot, I've met lots of great people and find a lot of satisfaction in going to small club competitions.

A tragedy... and my heartfelt condolences go out to the families of those who have been killed today, but I know what the headlines will be next... "new anti-gun legislation...."

Will a Government in this country ever conceive a policy that only effects the criminals instead of shafting honest folk? Granted this guy wasn't a criminal, but he obviously had a psychological problem to go on such a rampage.

At the end of the day, you can't foresee every eventuality. I just hope that rare occasions like this don't mean that honest people are penalised.

To summarise what I had to do:

Spent £350 on a secure gun cabinet, rawl bolted to the wall... inspections by firearm liaison officers to make sure my security is adequate. £50 for my FAC, which is reviewed every five years, I have to list exactly what weapon I own and the ammo... and restricted to a limited amount of ammunition. I have to to a registered member of a shooting club for which I pay about £100 a year. With paying for my rifle, a semi-automatic AR15 with a .22LR upper with optics etc cost me just over £1500. Not a small amount by any means. I'm hoping to buy a .223 upper for it, but need to list on my FAC a new variation of the same weapon and get it approved. Constantly jumping through hoops... not that I'm complaining. I just want to point out what we have to do in the UK to be allowed ownership of a firearm.

The thing that annoys me is that tragedies like this will spur on the Government to bring in some rushed through policy that will penalise the honest gun owners in this country...

Its a given. Just like after Hungerford and Dunblane the blue rinse brigade will be catered for in the trash media calling for strong action to protect the poor fearful people from the nutters hidden on every street of every village.
The government will duly come up with some dumb populist knee jerk legislation (which will again be useless) to show how strong they are on protecting the people.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Its a given. Just like after Hungerford and Dunblane the blue rinse brigade will be catered for in the trash media calling for strong action to protect the poor fearful people from the nutters hidden on every street of every village.
The government will duly come up with some dumb populist knee jerk legislation (which will again be useless) to show how strong they are on protecting the people.

Bingo. What a world we live in...

The shooter in this particular incident was a recent grandfather who drove a cab. Not really someone I'd characterize as a "scum", "criminal", etc. From what I know the shotgun he used had a permit as well.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

The shooter in this particular incident was a recent grandfather who drove a cab. Not really someone I'd characterize as a "scum", "criminal", etc. From what I know the shotgun he used had a permit as well.

Yeah, from all indications, while the guy most certainly can no longer really gather actual sympathy, some understanding is due. I'm sure he didn't just wake up one day after living 52 years and decided to kill people for fun. BBC is now speculating that it was a family dispute that got him going.

Never underestimate what stress can do, especially if there is some sort of mental condition lurking underneath. People can really crack - if you've been there, you know what that can be like. That doesn't justify this or whitewash the guy, nor is that really needed since he's dead - but let's not discount the possibility that if his day went a little differently, he would've gone on being your average village taxi driver.

But I totally agree that the public needs to stop obsessing over him and remember the victims. Reminds me of one of the few good lines to come out of Bowling for Columbine and Marilyn Manson: "What would you say to the victims? - Nothing. I would simply listen to what they had to say, and that's what noone did."

Let's hope someone does this time.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Its all because guns, if he didnt have one he wouldnt have killed anyone.
Otherwise he would have been happy, baked cookies and offered them house to house.

WRONG it's not because of the gun. A few people in China started a trend to slash kindergarten children using knife resulting in some death .

The world bears too much pain and it's all ****ed up. If you haven't got something to hold on to, you would likely be either carried away to follow the trend of ****ed up people or gone mad.

In this part of the world (region). . .
I'm seeing villains praised and very much respected, I'm seeing rule of law becoming a hypocrisy and a hindrance to justice, I'm seeing policemen who are the criminals, I'm seeing the convenient of the one stepping over the rights of many, I'm seeing people lying all the time and thinking it was smart, I'm seeing murderer who is proud of his deeds and who becomes addicted to killing.

Fewer and fewer people see goodness and kindness as a strength and think of them as weakness. Just last week I've been told to let go of my idealism. For what? For being idealistic?
Besides I never considered myself an idealist. Funny how people who demanded this of me never be able to show me the strength of their argument and when I showed mine and not by mere words they just repaid it with largely ignorance.

People are forgetting to love one another. If people knew where we all end up they'll. Most people haven't realized that despite the seeming differences we are ALL very much alike in the inside and that we are each a part of the other at least in the bigger picture.

And come to think this is now the 21st century and that people get decent education nowadays but the quality of the people from the lowliest places to the highest of places are tumbling down than even a few decades ago. Something is definitely wrong and is very wrong. If the society keeps on regressing civilization will collapse at least civilization as we know it and that's how I perceive it. And no I'm not having end of the world syndrome but this is my honest observation and assessment of the part of the world where I live.

[Steel_Tomb]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

The shooter in this particular incident was a recent grandfather who drove a cab. Not really someone I'd characterize as a "scum", "criminal", etc. From what I know the shotgun he used had a permit as well.

OTH... if you read my post properly you would see I wasn't comparing him as a criminal or "scum":

"Granted this guy wasn't a criminal, but he obviously had a psychological problem to go on such a rampage"

Like I said, you can't predict every eventuality... if he was a legal owner with the relevant checks then perhaps there were mistakes made in the past? People die every day, I'm not trying to play down this tragedy... but how many people are stabbed to death every day?

Knife crime in this country is so rampant that people aren't so surprised by it when people are killed as its perhaps regarded as "the norm" by them. Yet as soon as someone is shot dead everyone is up in arms fearing for their lives from the loony gun owners. It feels to me that there is a big social stigma in the UK against people who own guns, you say to someone "Oh yeah I own a rifle and go shooting at the weekends with friends" and they look at you as if you've got a screw loose. However if I were to say "Oh did you know I recently started archery" they would be like oh wow that's interesting... arrows kill just the same as bullets.

I hope this post has some kind of structure to it, as I'm in a bit of a ranty mood this morning lol.

[TarJak]

A sad tale all round. I do wish the families of all concerned my deepest condolences.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

The thing that annoys me is that tragedies like this will spur on the Government to bring in some rushed through policy that will penalise the honest gun owners in this country... like me... who comply with all the exceedingly strict laws and regulations, whilst letting all the scum keep theirs because they don't know where it is. Take the handgun ban for instance... do you really think the criminals handed in their weapons like good old chaps? No, it was the honest people who went through the lengthy process of getting their FAC that got shafted. I love to shoot, I've met lots of great people and find a lot of satisfaction in going to small club competitions.

A tragedy... and my heartfelt condolences go out to the families of those who have been killed today, but I know what the headlines will be next... "new anti-gun legislation...."

Will a Government in this country ever conceive a policy that only effects the criminals instead of shafting honest folk? Granted this guy wasn't a criminal, but he obviously had a psychological problem to go on such a rampage.

At the end of the day, you can't foresee every eventuality. I just hope that rare occasions like this don't mean that honest people are penalised.

To summarise what I had to do:

Spent £350 on a secure gun cabinet, rawl bolted to the wall... inspections by firearm liaison officers to make sure my security is adequate. £50 for my FAC, which is reviewed every five years, I have to list exactly what weapon I own and the ammo... and restricted to a limited amount of ammunition. I have to to a registered member of a shooting club for which I pay about £100 a year. With paying for my rifle, a semi-automatic AR15 with a .22LR upper with optics etc cost me just over £1500. Not a small amount by any means. I'm hoping to buy a .223 upper for it, but need to list on my FAC a new variation of the same weapon and get it approved. Constantly jumping through hoops... not that I'm complaining. I just want to point out what we have to do in the UK to be allowed ownership of a firearm.

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

OTH... if you read my post properly you would see I wasn't comparing him as a criminal or "scum":

"Granted this guy wasn't a criminal, but he obviously had a psychological problem to go on such a rampage"

Like I said, you can't predict every eventuality... if he was a legal owner with the relevant checks then perhaps there were mistakes made in the past? People die every day, I'm not trying to play down this tragedy... but how many people are stabbed to death every day?

Knife crime in this country is so rampant that people aren't so surprised by it when people are killed as its perhaps regarded as "the norm" by them. Yet as soon as someone is shot dead everyone is up in arms fearing for their lives from the loony gun owners. It feels to me that there is a big social stigma in the UK against people who own guns, you say to someone "Oh yeah I own a rifle and go shooting at the weekends with friends" and they look at you as if you've got a screw loose. However if I were to say "Oh did you know I recently started archery" they would be like oh wow that's interesting... arrows kill just the same as bullets.

I hope this post has some kind of structure to it, as I'm in a bit of a ranty mood this morning lol.

Two crackin posts IMO....I used to be involved in checking the security measures and FAC's of a gun club in Newcastle.

Only on one occasion was it necessary to enforce matters because of non compliance and that was little more than an administrative technicality.

Not long after Hungerford and the total banning of hand guns etc. the club turned to black powder in an effort to survive.

Six months later it was bulldozed to make way for a car park.

Still plenty of hand guns on the streets if you know where to go....problem is, they are all held by the very people the legislation was intended to protect the public from

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Castout

WRONG it's not because of the gun. A few people in China started a trend to slash kindergarten children using knife resulting in some death .

It's probably a language thing, but his post was dripping with sarcasm. He was slamming the people who will say it's because of the gun.

[Oberon]

To be honest, with the world we live in, the high stress society, particularly at a time when unemployment is high and money is low, I am surprised that more of this kind of thing does not take place. Heck, I'm sure that everyone has had a D-Fens moment but it's that key in psychology that separates those who do from those who don't.

I feel so sorry for those who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time...what a mess

Not sure if it's worthy of a new thread, in Belgium a judge and a court clerk have been shot.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10226550.stm

And about the law enforcement view on these things, I've noticed that if a cop is shot somewhere then the other cops are all like "We gotta get this guy and nail him to the wall!!11!" but if it's just someone who shoots average people then cops are all "These things happen, guns are ok".

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Guns don't kill people, people kill people, guns just give them the how, not the why.

Way off topic but something I found funny.

I was watching an episode of "Leave it to Beaver" yes leave it to Beaver.. anyhow the Beeve was asking his dad.. "Hey dad dident great grandpa sell guns to the Indians?" "No" dad responded "He just some them alchohal which put them in the mood to buy guns".

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Oberon

To be honest, with the world we live in, the high stress society, particularly at a time when unemployment is high and money is low, I am surprised that more of this kind of thing does not take place. Heck, I'm sure that everyone has had a D-Fens moment but it's that key in psychology that separates those who do from those who don't.

I feel so sorry for those who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time...what a mess

You just never know how many mentally unstable folk are out there walking the streets....until you approach or challenge one, often in all innocence...by then it is often too late