How do you get started?

NFunky · 05-17-10, 12:03 PM

I've played a lot of training scenarios and have gotten pretty comfortable operating without any autocrew (except active intercept). So I figured I'd start trying to play some real scenarios and immediately I discovered that mission startup is almost always the hardest part. In almost every scenario I played, I start out within sonar range of at least four contacts. I know four isn't really that many, but it means 8 contacts on the towed array which is a lot to sort out all at once. I just can't seem to organize all the initial contacts fast enough and it's extremely tedious. I think this is mostly because I don't have a 'mission start' procedure, so I end up just frantically marking contacts on all sensors and then laboring over merging, classifying and just generally getting a grip on them.

So this is yet another call for help. Are there some basic procedures I can use to make this initial phase of gameplay less cumbersome? And how should I change my approach when, for instance, I start out with my TA retracted? Would the procedures be drastically different in the Kilo? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Molon Labe · 05-18-10, 10:23 AM

I guess it kind of depends on the scenario. Are you getting dropped right into a combat zone or are you getting initial contact in the form of merchant traffic? Hopefully it's the latter.

I usually do my first scan with the sphere and hull arrays, because with those I don't have to worry about a false direction, and because it helps me pay attention to closer contacts first. If I start at PD, I'll throw the ESM antenna up and mark those because that's instant classification (periscope too if something is loud, on the surface, and not radiating). The towed array comes next, and I'll intentionally seek out the contacts I already have first. This reduces the time spent on the TA scan because I already know what bearings to get them on and which is the real contact, so in essence for every S/H contact I have I eliminates work on two TA contacts. Also, it helps with tracker assignment, because the trackers that get removed to follow newer contacts will be those that already have a sphere/hull tracker. Once all TA contacts on my initial course are marked, I'll turn to clear the bow baffle and eliminate false bearings, scan, cross the layer, scan, turn again, and scan again.

I think in a situation with a moderate number of initial contacts (like 4 or so) I'll have situational awareness established in ~5 minutes.

NFunky · 05-18-10, 05:20 PM

Thanks Molon, that's a good call on checking sphere/hull first. I usually did TA first without thinking, but I'm going to start using this method now. Also, it seems like your implying that I don't really need to pop-up for an ESM/peri scan if I start out at depth which is good to know.

I guess my real problem is splitting my time between scanning for and organizing sonar contacts with doing the TMA. I'm still not very fast with either and so use pause a lot, but even so it just feels so frantic getting a handle on all those initial contacts. I could handle doing the TMA for four or five contacts at once, but doing so while trying to manage the sonar picture is really difficult. When do you start doing initial TMA and which contacts should you work on first (especially important in the Kilo with its meager two trackers)? And if you start tracking four contacts right away, should you wait for a couple bearing lines before making your turn or do you want to clear the baffles as soon as possible and forget about that first leg?

Again, thanks for the help. This seems to be the one topic not covered in any of the DW guides (BlueBook, RedBook, TACMAN, etc.).

Molon Labe · 05-19-10, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFunky

Thanks Molon, that's a good call on checking sphere/hull first. I usually did TA first without thinking, but I'm going to start using this method now. Also, it seems like your implying that I don't really need to pop-up for an ESM/peri scan if I start out at depth which is good to know.

It depends on the mission. You may need to worry about aircraft. You may need to get mission tasking. Hell, you may even need to worry about that last 10% of HPA. But, if you're overwhelmed with initial contacts, building SA quickly is priority #1, sonar is your best sensor, and sonar sucks at PD. It can wait a few minutes.

Quote:

I guess my real problem is splitting my time between scanning for and organizing sonar contacts with doing the TMA. I'm still not very fast with either and so use pause a lot, but even so it just feels so frantic getting a handle on all those initial contacts. I could handle doing the TMA for four or five contacts at once, but doing so while trying to manage the sonar picture is really difficult. When do you start doing initial TMA and which contacts should you work on first (especially important in the Kilo with its meager two trackers)? And if you start tracking four contacts right away, should you wait for a couple bearing lines before making your turn or do you want to clear the baffles as soon as possible and forget about that first leg?

If I'm dropped into a multiple-contact situation, I'm not immediately concerned with TMA. I want to know who is out there first, and once I know that I can prioritize who gets my time on TMA. Priority goes to contacts that are a threat, followed by contact of mission interest (protect/attack), then to neutrals/friendlies that may enter the line of fire, and last to neutral traffic not likely to be a factor.

I usually make the first turn as soon as I've merged all contacts on the initial course. I'd make an exception to that if I'm playing a knife-fight MP duel and I have immediate contact on the opponent or in another situation where I have a very high-interest contact right off the bat. But I rarely play missions like that anyways.

TLAM Strike · 05-19-10, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

It depends on the mission. You may need to worry about aircraft. You may need to get mission tasking. Hell, you may even need to worry about that last 10% of HPA. But, if you're overwhelmed with initial contacts, building SA quickly is priority #1, sonar is your best sensor, and sonar sucks at PD. It can wait a few minutes.

I would disagree ML that sonar is your best sensor, while it has range the 'scope is the best since it give you unambiguous data. One or two sweeps with the periscope and you can get a decent solution on all contacts 5-10 nms away depending on their size (IE large ships show up farther than small ones).

NFunky · 05-19-10, 09:46 AM

Thanks again for the help. I guess I've been too concerned with getting tracking started right away, but it sounds like knowing the sonar picture is more important.

Unfortunately, the periscope is the one aspect of the game I can't really use because of being visually impaired (extremely frustrating). I've been able to use it if I already know the bearing to look down and the contact is either really big (carrier, super tanker) or really close (like 3-4 nm). Basically, the target has to be about a centimeter tall before I can make it out and sweep-searching is way beyond me. Even on the Kilo, I find myself using sonar and ESM way more often than the scope.

05-18-10, 10:23 AM	#2
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	I guess it kind of depends on the scenario. Are you getting dropped right into a combat zone or are you getting initial contact in the form of merchant traffic? Hopefully it's the latter. I usually do my first scan with the sphere and hull arrays, because with those I don't have to worry about a false direction, and because it helps me pay attention to closer contacts first. If I start at PD, I'll throw the ESM antenna up and mark those because that's instant classification (periscope too if something is loud, on the surface, and not radiating). The towed array comes next, and I'll intentionally seek out the contacts I already have first. This reduces the time spent on the TA scan because I already know what bearings to get them on and which is the real contact, so in essence for every S/H contact I have I eliminates work on two TA contacts. Also, it helps with tracker assignment, because the trackers that get removed to follow newer contacts will be those that already have a sphere/hull tracker. Once all TA contacts on my initial course are marked, I'll turn to clear the bow baffle and eliminate false bearings, scan, cross the layer, scan, turn again, and scan again. I think in a situation with a moderate number of initial contacts (like 4 or so) I'll have situational awareness established in ~5 minutes. __________________

05-17-10, 12:03 PM	#1
NFunky Machinist's Mate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 127 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	In the beginning, there were the contacts I've played a lot of training scenarios and have gotten pretty comfortable operating without any autocrew (except active intercept). So I figured I'd start trying to play some real scenarios and immediately I discovered that mission startup is almost always the hardest part. In almost every scenario I played, I start out within sonar range of at least four contacts. I know four isn't really that many, but it means 8 contacts on the towed array which is a lot to sort out all at once. I just can't seem to organize all the initial contacts fast enough and it's extremely tedious. I think this is mostly because I don't have a 'mission start' procedure, so I end up just frantically marking contacts on all sensors and then laboring over merging, classifying and just generally getting a grip on them. So this is yet another call for help. Are there some basic procedures I can use to make this initial phase of gameplay less cumbersome? And how should I change my approach when, for instance, I start out with my TA retracted? Would the procedures be drastically different in the Kilo? Any advice would be much appreciated. Last edited by NFunky; 05-17-10 at 08:15 PM.

05-18-10, 05:20 PM	#3
NFunky Machinist's Mate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 127 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Thanks Molon, that's a good call on checking sphere/hull first. I usually did TA first without thinking, but I'm going to start using this method now. Also, it seems like your implying that I don't really need to pop-up for an ESM/peri scan if I start out at depth which is good to know. I guess my real problem is splitting my time between scanning for and organizing sonar contacts with doing the TMA. I'm still not very fast with either and so use pause a lot, but even so it just feels so frantic getting a handle on all those initial contacts. I could handle doing the TMA for four or five contacts at once, but doing so while trying to manage the sonar picture is really difficult. When do you start doing initial TMA and which contacts should you work on first (especially important in the Kilo with its meager two trackers)? And if you start tracking four contacts right away, should you wait for a couple bearing lines before making your turn or do you want to clear the baffles as soon as possible and forget about that first leg? Again, thanks for the help. This seems to be the one topic not covered in any of the DW guides (BlueBook, RedBook, TACMAN, etc.).

05-19-10, 09:46 AM	#6
NFunky Machinist's Mate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 127 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Thanks again for the help. I guess I've been too concerned with getting tracking started right away, but it sounds like knowing the sonar picture is more important. Unfortunately, the periscope is the one aspect of the game I can't really use because of being visually impaired (extremely frustrating). I've been able to use it if I already know the bearing to look down and the contact is either really big (carrier, super tanker) or really close (like 3-4 nm). Basically, the target has to be about a centimeter tall before I can make it out and sweep-searching is way beyond me. Even on the Kilo, I find myself using sonar and ESM way more often than the scope.