All of us are using "DRM", it's called "Windows Product Activation." - Page 2

XabbaRus · 03-07-10, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swuboo

Windows can, however, stop working because you changed a hard drive or swapped out a graphics card. And if it's not the first time, you'll have to call Microsoft and plead your case before they will deign to let you resume using it. You cite Windows Genuine Advantage as a reason we should be okay with Ubi's far more draconian system. I cite Windows Genuine Advantage as the primary reason that I have not purchased a piece of Microsoft software since XP.

Really? I heard of that but my PC has had a new GFX card, more RAM, new DVD drive and not once has it had to be revalidated and that is after reinstalling XP about 6 times, eg once a year to clear out the system.

Heck I even installed XP from one laptop which had been dismantled onto a different laptop for which I lost the recovery disk and used the serial number off the dismantled laptop and it didn't query that it was on a different laptop to what it should have been expecting. IMHO XP has never been a hassle. The only time I had to phone microsoft is because I read the letter wrong as it was so damn small.

Schroeder · 03-07-10, 06:08 PM

@Xabba

If you get Windows together with your computer (I believe it's called an OEM version) than this Windows will only install on the system with which it was delivered. If you change some major hardware this Windows won't recognise your computer any more and therefore won't install.

This does not happen with a "normal" Windows that was bought separately.

kiwi_2005 · 03-07-10, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swuboo

Windows can, however, stop working because you changed a hard drive or swapped out a graphics card. And if it's not the first time, you'll have to call Microsoft and plead your case before they will deign to let you resume using it. You cite Windows Genuine Advantage as a reason we should be okay with Ubi's far more draconian system. I cite Windows Genuine Advantage as the primary reason that I have not purchased a piece of Microsoft software since XP.

OEM versions of Windows dont have this problem, change some hddware no reactivation needed. Ive changed hddware over the years and never had to reactivate. In fact windows activation never had to go through all that crap with OEM, unless it just does it without me knowing. Retail windows though i hear is nothing but a pain in the ass if it fails. Plus OEM versions you can throw on more than one computer without needing a license. Otherwise i would be in sht creek with MS but both pcs get updates and pass the genuine check. OEM

Bubblehead Nuke · 03-07-10, 07:15 PM

Ahhh, but there is more to the Microsoft Saga..

You all know WGA..

.. But they have a NEW three letter combo for you...

......WAT, otherwise known as "Windows Activation Technology"

Now, every 90 days YOU have to resubmitt to the Microsoft servers a request to validate your authenticity. If you do not pass muster you are flagged a pirate and you get this annoying black screen with dire soul crushing news that you are running illegal software.

This software is self healing (thus you can not just glitch it to break it), goes around any firewall blocks you may invoke, and makes changes to your system without your authorization.

Right now it is not mandatory and it is limited to Windows 7. In the past when you had to verify you were 'Genuine' a simple WGA is all you have to pass. Now you have to have a WAT pass as well.

It is only a matter of time before it is backported to Vista.

They made their money off of XP so they do not really care if you pirate it now. Time will force you to update to a newer OS as new games, utilities and other things come out that just no longer work on the older software.

krashkart · 03-08-10, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swuboo

Windows can, however, stop working because you changed a hard drive or swapped out a graphics card. And if it's not the first time, you'll have to call Microsoft and plead your case before they will deign to let you resume using it.

I had to call Microsoft once after swapping in a new drive just days after making a clean install of XP. Naturally they wanted to know why I was trying to activate so soon after the first, and my response was simply that my old drive had failed. No further questions, and I was able to reactivate immediately. What keeps me from upgrading to a newer Windows is cost.

As for the Ubisoft approach to DRM, I probably won't be buying anything that requires a steady internet connection, simply because I don't like being tied to the internet unless I am actually using it (like right now). It's unfair, though, that the many are paying for the actions of a few rotten eggs.

Catfish · 03-09-10, 09:26 AM

Hello,
the day they develop games and good sims for Linux, i will instantly and gladly refrain from the Window$ DLL hell, the bloody "registry" and this activation crap.

Up to then most games and "sims" will anyway only run on Sony, Nintendo and MS consoles.

Greetings,
Catfish

VipertheSniper · 03-09-10, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krashkart

As for the Ubisoft approach to DRM, I probably won't be buying anything that requires a steady internet connection, simply because I don't like being tied to the internet unless I am actually using it (like right now). It's unfair, though, that the many are paying for the actions of a few rotten eggs.

In case of SH5 it's probably the case that the many are paying for the actions of a few rotten eggs, but if you look at more popular games it's actually the other way round. Not that I like the scheme Ubisoft implemented, but piracy on the PC is a huge problem, Ubi could've chosen a better way to go about it though.

Nisgeis · 03-06-10, 05:18 PM

Come on people it's time to move on. Consult your subsim manuals and you'll find on page 196, section iii, subsection c, the rules for a new release, which this situation is, clearly states that we should be past the DRM complaints and analogies stage and firmly onto the OMGNOEZ this game suxxorz!1!1!1!one!? submissions and rebuttals stage. All those who picked the white buttons are pro game and all those with the black buttons are anti-game. If you don't have a button, then you got missed off the PM, so send a request off to be assigned your button and you'll know whether you are pro game or anti game. Remember, subsection d details what to do if you get a red button - you have to be anti game, but state clearly you haven't played it, yet still maintain an air of authority about it without a trace of self doubt or even a hint that you know how ridiculous that position is (I know it's a tough one to pull off, but next release you'll get a new button, so this is only for this release).

Remember, the best performance for those with a red button will receive the 'Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf' torphy for excellence.

Flopper · 03-06-10, 05:26 PM

To activate Windows, it need happen only once, and an internet connection is not required at all, ever, including the activation.

Ships-R-Us · 03-06-10, 05:33 PM

I missed out on the "pm" that issued the buttons. I would like a white button. My manual has subsection C missing. It appears that I was issued a used manual and the previous owner tore out the pages for subsection C.............Any help on getting a white button is appreciated.

Easy Tiger · 03-06-10, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kylania

Windows Product Activation is fine. You do it once and you're done. You're not treated like a criminal and forced to constantly prove you didn't steal the software by being online without interruption while you play a single player game. Comparing OSP and WPA is the definition of apples and oranges.

If SH5 had required me to be online once to activate the product, NO PROBLEM. But if it forces me to be online constantly, overwrites my saves because of synch issues, doesn't let me play because their servers are having problems and basically makes me suffer even though I paid for the product, BIG PROBLEM.

Can't say it any better than this. You're comparing apples and oranges.

nvrsummer2 · 03-06-10, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deputy

Windows doesn't stop working just because you can't connect to the internet.

End of debate...

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 03-08-10, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ships-R-Us

DRM and the Future

Consider one last example of a protection method which has been subject to similar levels of hysteria and misinformation, and which every legitimate Windows user has installed on their system right now:

Yes, WPA is a very early form of DRM - presumably one of the reasons Microsoft didn't push its luck too far and kept it mild. However, as it is, I'm sure a major reason people bit the bullet is because they are all already entrapped in the Windows system, a factor that won't be for a game, nor does people's acceptance of it mean it is good, or proper, or anything ofr the matter.

Deputy · 03-08-10, 10:26 AM

As of the end of February 2010, Windows XP is the most widely used operating system in the world with a 58.4% market share, having peaked at 76.1% in January 2007. Support for XP from Microsoft will go on until 2013. I have it on all my comps as either standard XP or XP 64 bit. No way I will "upgrade" to any other OS until XP expires, and maybe not even then. I have NO doubt that WAT will be hacked quite quickly. Microsoft continuously underestimates the intelligence of it's users.

Considering software is still being written to XP, I doubt very much there is a worry about software compatibility. It takes a LONG time for an OS to be backwards incompatible with software. Heck, I have SH3 running on two comps with 64 bit operating systems and it runs super fast. What WILL be necessary to upgrade is HARDWARE. Games are being written to more and more advanced hardware specs and that's where the upgrading will be needed. That is, if you BUY those hardware-intensive games. With the hardware I have right now I can run the most hardware-intensive games at at least medium settings. But I don't really have any interest in those games. Most are 1st person shooters.

As to SHV, I think Ubi's "master plan" is to sell the game to as many people as possible that will buy it for it's current $50 price. When they reach a certain profit point, they will come out with a patch that will eliminate the need to be online to play. The hacks that are out there right now are all flawed because they don't give full functionality to the game.
Of course, it's still early and a new hack may come out that does give full functionality. You never know. But it's costing Ubisoft money to run those online servers and it's just a matter of time before the expense of running the servers outweighs their usefulness in preventing piracy. Plus we've already seen where the servers crashed and THAT does not make for happy users. The negative feelings from loyal SH3 and 4 users certainly isn't helping Ubi's cause. I have no doubt there are some that are so peed off about the online situation that they won't buy SH5 no matter if Ubi takes the online requirement out or not. And I sure don't blame them.

03-07-10, 06:08 PM	#2
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	@Xabba If you get Windows together with your computer (I believe it's called an OEM version) than this Windows will only install on the system with which it was delivered. If you change some major hardware this Windows won't recognise your computer any more and therefore won't install. This does not happen with a "normal" Windows that was bought separately. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

03-06-10, 05:18 PM	#8
Nisgeis Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,909 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 11	Come on people it's time to move on. Consult your subsim manuals and you'll find on page 196, section iii, subsection c, the rules for a new release, which this situation is, clearly states that we should be past the DRM complaints and analogies stage and firmly onto the OMGNOEZ this game suxxorz!1!1!1!one!? submissions and rebuttals stage. All those who picked the white buttons are pro game and all those with the black buttons are anti-game. If you don't have a button, then you got missed off the PM, so send a request off to be assigned your button and you'll know whether you are pro game or anti game. Remember, subsection d details what to do if you get a red button - you have to be anti game, but state clearly you haven't played it, yet still maintain an air of authority about it without a trace of self doubt or even a hint that you know how ridiculous that position is (I know it's a tough one to pull off, but next release you'll get a new button, so this is only for this release). Remember, the best performance for those with a red button will receive the 'Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf' torphy for excellence. __________________ -------------------------------- This space left intentionally blank.

03-06-10, 05:26 PM	#9
Flopper Weps Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Asheville, NC, USA Posts: 356 Downloads: 107 Uploads: 0	To activate Windows, it need happen only once, and an internet connection is not required at all, ever, including the activation. __________________

03-07-10, 07:15 PM	#4
Bubblehead Nuke XO Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 435 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Ahhh, but there is more to the Microsoft Saga.. You all know WGA.. .. But they have a NEW three letter combo for you... ......WAT, otherwise known as "Windows Activation Technology" Now, every 90 days YOU have to resubmitt to the Microsoft servers a request to validate your authenticity. If you do not pass muster you are flagged a pirate and you get this annoying black screen with dire soul crushing news that you are running illegal software. This software is self healing (thus you can not just glitch it to break it), goes around any firewall blocks you may invoke, and makes changes to your system without your authorization. Right now it is not mandatory and it is limited to Windows 7. In the past when you had to verify you were 'Genuine' a simple WGA is all you have to pass. Now you have to have a WAT pass as well. It is only a matter of time before it is backported to Vista. They made their money off of XP so they do not really care if you pirate it now. Time will force you to update to a newer OS as new games, utilities and other things come out that just no longer work on the older software.

03-09-10, 09:26 AM	#6
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,766 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, the day they develop games and good sims for Linux, i will instantly and gladly refrain from the Window$ DLL hell, the bloody "registry" and this activation crap. Up to then most games and "sims" will anyway only run on Sony, Nintendo and MS consoles. Greetings, Catfish

03-06-10, 05:33 PM	#10
Ships-R-Us Commander Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 452 Downloads: 134 Uploads: 0	I missed out on the "pm" that issued the buttons. I would like a white button. My manual has subsection C missing. It appears that I was issued a used manual and the previous owner tore out the pages for subsection C.............Any help on getting a white button is appreciated.

03-08-10, 10:26 AM	#14
Deputy Watch Officer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 344 Downloads: 129 Uploads: 0	As of the end of February 2010, Windows XP is the most widely used operating system in the world with a 58.4% market share, having peaked at 76.1% in January 2007. Support for XP from Microsoft will go on until 2013. I have it on all my comps as either standard XP or XP 64 bit. No way I will "upgrade" to any other OS until XP expires, and maybe not even then. I have NO doubt that WAT will be hacked quite quickly. Microsoft continuously underestimates the intelligence of it's users. Considering software is still being written to XP, I doubt very much there is a worry about software compatibility. It takes a LONG time for an OS to be backwards incompatible with software. Heck, I have SH3 running on two comps with 64 bit operating systems and it runs super fast. What WILL be necessary to upgrade is HARDWARE. Games are being written to more and more advanced hardware specs and that's where the upgrading will be needed. That is, if you BUY those hardware-intensive games. With the hardware I have right now I can run the most hardware-intensive games at at least medium settings. But I don't really have any interest in those games. Most are 1st person shooters. As to SHV, I think Ubi's "master plan" is to sell the game to as many people as possible that will buy it for it's current $50 price. When they reach a certain profit point, they will come out with a patch that will eliminate the need to be online to play. The hacks that are out there right now are all flawed because they don't give full functionality to the game. Of course, it's still early and a new hack may come out that does give full functionality. You never know. But it's costing Ubisoft money to run those online servers and it's just a matter of time before the expense of running the servers outweighs their usefulness in preventing piracy. Plus we've already seen where the servers crashed and THAT does not make for happy users. The negative feelings from loyal SH3 and 4 users certainly isn't helping Ubi's cause. I have no doubt there are some that are so peed off about the online situation that they won't buy SH5 no matter if Ubi takes the online requirement out or not. And I sure don't blame them.