Man intentionally crashes light plane into IRS offices

[Castout]

Originally Posted by bookworm_020

It seems going postal is now out of date. I know that people get frustrated with the tax man, but killing people who are trying to do their job isn't the way to vent your frustrations

Of course what he did was wrong it can never be justified.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Read the "manifesto"

agree with virtually every word.

However, I can't say any single sentence of the whole document is worth putting a plane through a seven story window... but then again... im more or less "normal" depending on your definition.

I'm quite supprised at this perhaps you should read it again.

Oh yea and the media trying to paint this nut as a right wing activist is amusing.

[Platapus]

One would think that if he wanted his suicide note/ "manifesto" to be taken seriously, he would have at least passed it through a spell checker.

If they feel that is the appropriate action, I wish guys like this would just quietly kill themselves; but not involve innocent people or destroy public property.

Depending on the culture, there may be honour in suicide, but never for the murder of innocent people.

What a terrible thing this guy choose to do. Honestly, I have a hard time mustering up any sympathy for him.

My sympathies are for the innocent people he decided deserved to die for HIS reasons. Tragic

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

I'm quite supprised at this perhaps you should read it again.

Oh yea and the media trying to paint this nut as a right wing activist is amusing.

"virtually every word" being the key operative phrase.

the particular part i agree with is the part about the Tax codes and laws being so convoluted that even the heads of the IRS cannot fully understand them. we have actually seen this in the press. I cant seem to find the article on short notice but one of the heads of the IRS i think it was says that he uses turbotax because he doesnt understand all the tax laws.

also the part about there being two interpretations to these laws, those for the wealthy and those for the rest of us... it is true.

dont get me wrong... the man was a nut job, and to say he obviously had no idea how to rationally deal with his problems would be an understatement.

but you cant label him a right wing nut job or a left wing nut job, or any nut job with any political motivations.

who hasn't been upset with the IRS... even if just a little?

his motivations were not "politics" - his motivation was frustration and anger at the IRS.

to really clarify my previous post, i think the IRS codes and laws need a massive overhaul of not a TOTAL RE-WRITE altogether... i personally find them to be frustrating, and overly demanding of the average citizen financially speaking.

I also think that we roll over and take it as a people (a theme also present in his "manafesto")

I further agree that there are a number of taxes that we pay that could be reasonably argued as unconstitutional.

i further agree with his statement that "The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they fully understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is? If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is."

i honestly cant say for fact that my tax filing is 100% perfect to the interpretation of the law... especially considering that the law might have multiple interpretations.

Yet... if i am to "play the game" and do so "legal and proper" i MUST sign the form, yes?

though i agree with perhaps one quarter of this man's entire angry little rant... AND i am completely distrustful of virtually every single branch and individual associated with the Government on some level... i cant say that ANY of his ramblings could ever in a million years justify his actions.

i also cannot tolerate any condemnation of general aviation as a whole over this "isolated incident".

If the man didnt have access to a plane, he probably would have just loaded a van with fertilizer... no van? no fertilizer? he probably would have just walked right into the front door with a hunting rifle or a pistol or a knife or a sharp stick or a rock or his bare hands and a deranged look on his face. - and in the process probably would have caused less physical damage to the building... and MORE loss of life.

the fact alone that he seemed to opt not to gun everyone down and instead targeted the building suggests to me even further that he was not after any one person or individual... but instead was targeting the "agency"... if that statement makes sense. (like a u-boat sinking a ship... the ship represents the enemy... you are not necessarily targeting the sailors inside)

nobody can prevent or predict this sort of thing... i dont care what security measures you put in place, what your budget for psychic network is etc. it cannot be prevented or predicted.

to say the man makes a few valid points in his cute little manifesto is one thing.

but please understand... I, in no way think his foolish, selfish criminal act was justified in the least little bit.

I also know it is not the first time... and it wont be the last time... that someone gets pissed off at the IRS and goes ape sh*t over it and attempts to kill someone.

hope that clears up my feelings on the matter.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

who hasn't been upset with the IRS... even if just a little?

Honestly? Me. I too have disagreements and opinions on the tax laws. However that is under the purview of congress which I often DO get upset about.

But I don't get upset at the IRS. It is simply a government office doing what it is told to do; staffed by imperfect humans in which a goodly percentage are trying to do a good job. They do their job "pretty" well but not perfect (have not met anyone, government or commercial that does their job perfectly).

Are mistakes made? Yup
Sometimes are the mistakes in the favour of the citizen? yup
Sometimes are the mistakes in the favour of the government? yup

It is an imperfect system, staffed with imperfect humans enforcing imperfect laws made by the

LYING CHEATING SCUMBAGS THAT HAVE INFESTED CONGRESS LIKE THE WORTHLESS VERMIN THEY ARE FOR THE PAST 100 YEARS OR MORE!

Oops, that got away from me for a bit. Sorry.

But no, I don't get upset with the IRS. I have been audited twice and both times I have been treated with respect and consideration. I am batting .500. One time it was a mistake on the part of the IRS and the other was a mistake (an honest mistake, but still a mistake) on my part. No threats, no intimidation, just an emotionless explanation of the facts.

I don't have a problem with the IRS.

Did I happen to mention how I feel about congress?

[krashkart]

I really don't have an opinion on this one, just hope that everyone that has been affected by that one mans' actions will again find a measure of peace. Plenty of nightmares to come, and those will perhaps fade over time. The wounds will heal over enough as well. Got a prayer for tonight.

[Morts]

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/528055

also the part about there being two interpretations to these laws, those for the wealthy and those for the rest of us... it is true

What is true is that there are those whose accountants can get a grip on the details and those whose accountants can't.
There is no shortage of people who thought being wealthy was sufficieint reason to put their own interpretation of tax laws into play, they end up paying the price just like anyone else who illegaly dodges tax.

There are a lot of people in the US, and especially in Texas, who are ready and willing to revolt against the government and establish what they see as a free state. I'm one of them. If there was a Libertarian revolution tommorrow I'd be on the front lines by the next day.

And like any revolution and establishment of a "free state", you would be swapping one bunch of crooks and liars for another bunch of crooks and liars who in the end will be come indistinguishable in any meaningful way.

Local "liberal" media (880 AM) had a field day with this - trying to tie this guys 7 page manifesto to the Tea Party movement.

The fact is the hardcore left SEES the fact that the average American is against the (insert label here - progressive, socialist, whatever) direction that the hard left has tried to take the country, and they are trying to find ANY way they can to marginalize any group that disagrees with them, no matter how much they need to reach.

You can flip that round and it works just as well, in fact it fits very well with the practices of many parts of the tea party movement and its mainstream media sponsors.

[Aramike]

"...violence ... is the only answer."

I'm curious as to what this man thought his violence would answer.

But he wasn't a terrorist. I mean, he was white, wasn't he? And possibly even a christian of some kind, so nope, not a terrorist. A violent protester, or possibly an unruly demonstrator, but a terrorist? No.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

But he wasn't a terrorist. I mean, he was white, wasn't he? And possibly even a christian of some kind, so nope, not a terrorist. A violent protester, or possibly an unruly demonstrator, but a terrorist? No.

Umm, do you know what "terrorism" is?

A person's ethnicity, religion, etc. has little to do with it. Rather, if the act is measured to cause terror beyond the scope of said act, that's when it is terrorism.

Yes, this idiot slammed a small plane into a building. If it were the same situation and it was an Arab perpetuating the act, it would still not be terror.

Originally Posted by Aramike

Umm, do you know what "terrorism" is?

A person's ethnicity, religion, etc. has little to do with it. Rather, if the act is measured to cause terror beyond the scope of said act, that's when it is terrorism.

Yes, this idiot slammed a small plane into a building. If it were the same situation and it was an Arab perpetuating the act, it would still not be terror.

Seems you have your very own definition of terrorism. But hey, that's pretty common in the States.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Seems you have your very own definition of terrorism. But hey, that's pretty common in the States.

Yeah, nice try at avoiding the issue.

Why don't you kick off your part of the INTELLECTUAL discourse (meaning, not the continuance of emotional, knee-jerk comments) by sharing YOUR definition of terrorism?

And please note that you're talking to the individual that called for restraint in labelling the Fort Hood shootings terrorism immediately in its aftermath.

[Wolfehunter]

This guy wasn't insane. He knew what he was doing. Was his method effective? I don't know. Time will tell. But in his letter.. He's right 100%.

Everybody has to wake up.. He was fed up with the elitist bull****.

At least he has the balls to do something about it...

[CaptainHaplo]

By the legal definition, his act of violence with the INTENT to create or ignite unrest in the people toward a legally elected government does meet the stringent definition of terrorism. His race or religion have nothing to do with it.

Terrorism is designed to disrupt the order of society, while forcing the people of society to react in a specific way. His "manifesto" - while it does have some extremely accurate points - does put forth the premise that the people must "stand against" the government - resulting in the subsequent "body count" he refers to.

There are political reasons why the government is not calling this terrorism. But politics have no bearing on the truth. It was a terrorist act - and was committed by a terrorist.