[QUE] Requests for wide-rez interface

[Corsair]

I suppose it is a problem with the new 16/9 widescreen standards. As said before, I play 1680 x 1050 on a 22" 16/10 monitor. Periscope and instruments ( Hitman scope and displays for NYGM - for Living SH3 V5 the ones inside the mod) are all very playable. Before I was playing 1280 x 1024 on a 4/3 19" and I don't find that much difference.

I think I'm going to stock a couple of 16/10 monitors (I plan on buying a 26" soon) before they disappear. I don't like the 16/9 at all...

[piri_reis]

I play it in hirez also, 1680x1050, 16:10 LCD monitor.
But as some have said here, none of the stretching bothers me.
Actually the other way around 4:3 scaling or whatever its called, looks a little weird.
But if you all want to get crazy with this mod, good luck

[karamazovnew]

Hitman, before starting working on KiUB I spent a lot of time (2 months I think) trying to create a 3D periscope interface. There were 2 problems:
1. Periscope Bearing can't be turned into a circular dial. I wanted to do a sort of FOV dial to show the orientation of the scope
2. The TDC Autoupdate crap that doesn't let you manipulate the dials.
3. No "go back on right click" camera from the periscope view.
4. No control over the stadimeter.
5. No ability to create "new" dials.

What I did manage to do:
I was able to link the periscope seat cam to the periscope itself. I then transformed the periscope object into a dial, the TDC Bearing one. SO as long as Autoupdate was ON, every time you moved the bearing dial on the TDC (unwanted effect) or moved the periscope (wanted effect), the periscope itself would rotate and the seat camera would show you a new perspective of the conning tower. Even more, You could check the Bearing by looking up above the periscope.
I then added a 3D dial which I was able to turn into a 3D AOBF. But no matter how much I tried, I couldn't make it move automatically when I changed the Mast size or moved the stadimeter. Also, the stadimeter doesn't have an available command. To access the TDC I actually accessed the Conning Tower Camera which was fixed on the TDC and didn't move with the waves. It didn't work BAD, but not good either. All of the above are true both in SH3 and SH4. They might work in SH5 however

[karamazovnew]

Actually, when SH5 was announced with a free roaming camera, I couldn't believe my lucky ears. I was sure that the devs must've wanted a full 3D interface too. How wrong I was....

To make a full 3d interface you need something like (and I now make a full repeat of my very first post on Subsim):

- No clicking on dials... You change the TDC ones by turning knobs. You change course and speed by giving orders to crew.
- No more clicking on objects that are 40 meters away. Tooltips should also be available only for close objects.
- No more 2d dials. You check your status by looking at the real dials.
- A "steady-cam" button like SHIFT to prevent the camera from moving with the waves.
- more control over the cameras: "From this camera, while I keep the X key or the right mouse button pressed, show me the Z camera." In this way, you'd be able to "lean" into the periscope to look through the viewfinder.
- Predefined "focus" points for cameras. From the periscope seat camera, it would be nice to look up quickly to check bearings, look to the Dials on the wall, look down to see the AOBF and so on, just by a flick of the mouse.
- Full functionality of each station. Otherwise, what's the point in using a station manually? For example the Sonar didn't just have a stupid volume knob. It had an "equalizer" so you could filter out unwanted frequencies. It also had a cut-out amplitude/frequency filter to check if a ship was closing or moving away.
- A smart orders interface coupled with the relation of your position (for example you're in the conning tower) to the officer's position (for example torpedo room). The less clicking the better, I know, but the illusion should be preserved (talk into a mic, pass the order to a sailor who passes it to another and so on, call for an officer to come to you etc.)
- Text boxes to allow entering precise absolute/relative orders. For example, Go 10 meters deeper, increase speed to 70 rpm and so on.
- crew scripts: "pump out water when we're being depth charged, stop when the explosions stop".
- better reports from the Weapon's Officer. He should've been able to give you intercept course bearings just by rotating the AOB (read my manual targeting tutorial) and correct the AOB after a course change.
- And yes, an AOBF coupled with horizontal and vertical split prism stadimeter.
- And a blond pornstar!

[Hitman]

- And a blond pornstar!

If you have that, you no longer need SH3 at all

[Hitman]

Hummm it seems that not many widescreen users are actually interested

OK, we saved us a lot of effort

[conus00]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Hummm it seems that not many widescreen users are actually interested

I don't think that's it. I think that a lots of people are waiting (and secretly hoping) for the SHV mess to be sorted out and that the SHV will replace SHIII.
I believe that this thread might get better response about 2 weeks - month after SHV is released and turns out to be a flop.

I, for one, would love to see SH3 fully in widescreen. I have been using rubini's mod, but the unmodded stuff is just bad (stretched images, dials etc.).
I got 32in Bravia for Xmas (1920x1080) and games look amazing on this thing...

[verte]

Originally Posted by conus00

I think that a lots of people are waiting (and secretly hoping) for the SHV mess to be sorted out and that the SHV will replace SHIII.

I'm actually waiting for Hitman's new GUI for SH3 (normal, not wide-screen). There is a special installation of SH3 on my disk waiting only for this, so I hope that you will finish soon, Hitman

[karamazovnew]

Originally Posted by verte

I'm actually waiting for Hitman's new GUI for SH3 (normal, not wide-screen). There is a special installation of SH3 on my disk waiting only for this, so I hope that you will finish soon, Hitman

Oh yeah, Hitman, at least a screenshot or something
BTW, if anyone want to hijack this thread and talk about what his perfect interface would look like (in SH5), go ahead, maybe some of those things can be implemented in SH3 too

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Hummm it seems that not many widescreen users are actually interested

OK, we saved us a lot of effort

It's not that I'm not interested, it's just that having followed a number of attempts at this over the years that always hit the same stumbling blocks I'm not sure I'd ever prefer it over fixed-aspect...unless the stumbling blocks were overcome.

I'm fortunate in that I have an nVidia card, which means that even with my widescreen monitor I can maintain 4:3 ratio and with scaling.

For me, black bands on the left and right of the monitor are preferred over ovalled circles and such. Find a fix for that, and I'd be interested.

[Reece]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Hummm it seems that not many widescreen users are actually interested

OK, we saved us a lot of effort

I'm very much interested but as I have said the widescreen only works on ATI cards, this splits people interested in half, this really is the main problem, I would work on it further but can't pass this first hurdle! so far I have been completely ignored!

[Hitman]

Humm OK I understand your position guys.

@Karamazov:

The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that the only way to overcome this problem is to go 3D. It would also be the less work-intensive way to do it.

Basically, the idea would be as follows:

1.-Strip all 2D screens from dials and rotating things (Periscopes, UZO, TDC). In the tool bar, the 6 dials that are there can be replaced by simple digital readouts. The work done to rescale periscope will anyway serve also for the UZO and the other periscope. But I would leave the Notepad out, as that can be a big headache. If many users request it, it can be added later, but I would go for a first functional release, and then slowly implementing more things. Otherwise the job will burn any takers.

2.-Rescale the images of all 2D screens that are to stay. This is the most work intensive part, specially the icons. But it also is the less important one, because it's actually the oval dials what looks worser. This should therefore be done, as I said, in different steps.

3.-Rework certain 3D stations and link them to the F keys. For example, the TDC screen would no longer be a 2D screen with attack map, but instead hitting the key would take you to the conning tower to a zoomed view in front of the TDC. That TDC would benefit from a new, higher resolution model, for which we can use what Karamazov already created for SH4.


In all, this would give a reasonably looking interface, at the expense of not being as detailed as the ones that can be created in 4:3

I would suggest making first the stripped version of the interface WITHOUT resizing dials and letting widescreen users download and test it, so they can voice their opinion about if it is too simple to be of good use and not worth the effort, as it would fall short.

[Mikhayl]

And there are already some functionalities for that in game.
When you right clic on the weapon officer you get a fixed view zoomed on the bottom part of the TDC. Now you'd need to move the WE in the conning tower (doable I think with the open hatch mods) and have his camera fixed on the TDC.
And why not use some hyper hi-res textures for that particular part to have a more acceptable level of detail compared to the 2D interface.

Same for the LI if I'm not mistaken, right clicking on him gives you a fixed view on the telegraphs and rudder controls on the wall behind him. It could be moved to have a larger fixed view showing both the engine, rudder and depth control dials.

You can also have the "goback" button set on the right-click, but it's a bit cumbersome when using the tools on the navmap (you usually use right clic to "cancel" a tool, now it puts you back in the CR).

Sorry if it's already been posted, I only read the thread quickly

[Hitman]

When you right clic on the weapon officer you get a fixed view zoomed on the bottom part of the TDC. Now you'd need to move the WE in the conning tower (doable I think with the open hatch mods) and have his camera fixed on the TDC.
And why not use some hyper hi-res textures for that particular part to have a more acceptable level of detail compared to the 2D interface.

Same for the LI if I'm not mistaken, right clicking on him gives you a fixed view on the telegraphs and rudder controls on the wall behind him. It could be moved to have a larger fixed view showing both the engine, rudder and depth control dials.

That's a damn good idea I had forgotten about

[Seeadler]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Yes, that is what I said. Anything that doesn't actually move has no problems at all. The problem are the needles inside dials, which rotate and will look larger when positioned horizontally, than when vertically.

The solution to the problem might actually be in that

We know that anything 2D will not get rescaled, and that dials will therefore look horrible when they rotate ...

How does it work in SH4, are the needles there not 2D image overlays?