Army General Makes Pregnancy Punishable Offense in Iraq

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Government... property? You cannot mean that literally. That would be slavery, and would call all situations void and invalid that could be imagined where soldiers are not only free but maybe even have the duty to not carry out illegal orders.

Well not slavery but servitude and there is nothing illegal against servitude only involuntary servitude (with exceptions for the draft).

I was in the military for 20 years and yup, they owned my ass. Remember "Full Metal Jacket"?

"Your heart may belong to Jesus but your ass belongs to the corps!"

Not just a line from some movie, it is a tradition in the military.

They could make medical decisions for me as well as order me on suicide missions. I could be ordered to kill or be killed. I could be ordered to shoot my own troops and be ordered to be shot by my own troops.

If the military has that much authority over me, a little thing like court marshaling my ass for knocking up some GI so that she misses a deployment is small spuds.

People who are contemplating entering the military need to fully understand the contract they are signing. You voluntarily give up a lot of control that ordinary citizens enjoy.

You are not a piece of property to the military as property has value and can be hard to replace. You are, however, a resource to be used/expended to further national policy.

That's what makes the military a hard career and one not for everyone.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Government... property? You cannot mean that literally. That would be slavery, and would call all situations void and invalid that could be imagined where soldiers are not only free but maybe even have the duty to not carry out illegal orders.

He means it quite literaly.
One surrenders their constitutional rights upon entering the US Military.
Uniform Code of Military Justice prevails in all circumstances.

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

I always thought it was stupid to put women on board combat ships. Can you imagine all the nasty soap opera drama on board a Nimitz class carrier which could screw w/its combat effectiveness?

Agreed.

[CaptainHaplo]

Yes - property is the accurate term.

In fact, I happen to know one company commander that required any soldier to get his authorization before getting a tattoo. Reason was he had to approve the design supposedly, but I actually know it was because the post had a number of not so reputable shops, and some that were. He only made sure the guys went to a place that was clean.

On soldier blew that off - and served a non-judicial punishment under that beloved article - 15. Any former military member will know what an article 15 is. The official reasoning - destruction of military property.

[FIREWALL]

I' sure a dishonorable and all loss of benifits earned would put a halt to this.

[ETR3(SS)]

If you get a Dishonorable Discharge, you lose all benefits by default. Not to mention you can't work for any government contractor ever, that includes McDonalds.

[kiwi_2005]

Going slightly of topic here. I watched a documentary on Googlevideo other night - Operation Homecoming - Writing the wartime experience. A unique documentary about troops' experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan, based on writings by soldiers, Marines, and air men. Very cool and an eye opener. Didn't find it anti American or anti war just views on what soldiers thought.

Yet more reason why those weak men should be banned from the military.

Also if we mandated that all men and women in the military were gay we wouldn't have this problem.

So the General has had 4 soldiers getting pregnant and 4 soldiers who were already pregnant.
Big problem eh/

So since half of the problem is back home then what they must do is ban any female in the regular service or the reserve or national guard from getting pregnant just in case they end up getting deployed. After all as it is being sold as a matter of efficiency it has to aim for efficiency.

[MothBalls]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Government... property? You cannot mean that literally. That would be slavery, and would call all situations void and invalid that could be imagined where soldiers are not only free but maybe even have the duty to not carry out illegal orders.

Property is a perfect description. When you join the American Military, as others have mentioned, you do give up some rights and are subject to a different set of laws. One of those rights being double jeopardy. A civilian can only be charged for a crime once. As a military member, if you commit a civilian crime you can be tried in a civilian court, and then be tried again for the same crime by courts martial. I'm too lazy, but I'm sure you can google the enlistment contract. It's even a little worse for commissioned officers, with more authority and responsibility, more liability and accountability as well.

Back on topic, the general is correct. He has the authority to issue a direct order, telling female soldiers on deployment to not get pregnant [by disallowing any sexual relations] and it would be a lawful order. I agree with him. He has to maintain combat effectiveness and he can't do that reliably if he loses soldiers to pregnancy. They signed the contract, made the commitment, and should be expected to honor it.

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by August

Yeah the womens movement fought for the right for women to enter the workplace. Now it's pretty much necessary for both parents to work just to make ends meet.

Ya, course part of the problem there aside from lower overall wages is the amount of technology we have been brainwashed into thinking we need to buy for us and our kids. That is one of the key differences between now and 30 years ago.

Originally Posted by Snestorm

I like the old rules better:
If you can't afford to support her, you can't marry her.
And you'd better make damn certain not to get her pregnant!

I for one don't like the old rules better, as there were a whole bunch of really awful laws and rules tied into it. Women deserve equal rights, opportunities, and payment, and full access to any job with the only possible exception to jobs which require a certain level of physical strength (I don't support lowered requirements in those cases). Besides it just doesn't work anymore, not if you want the lifestyle everyone in the west thinks they deserve and need.

Originally Posted by MothBalls

Back on topic, the general is correct. He has the authority to issue a direct order, telling female soldiers on deployment to not get pregnant [by disallowing any sexual relations] and it would be a lawful order. I agree with him. He has to maintain combat effectiveness and he can't do that reliably if he loses soldiers to pregnancy. They signed the contract, made the commitment, and should be expected to honor it.

Well at least the general is going after both parties. Only issue I have is that the orders be equal. If women can't have sex then neither should men. Fair is fair right?

Oh and lastly never ever EVER rely on condoms as the sole method of birth control, they are one of the least effective methods out there and the failure rate is very high. They are great for STD protection though which has always been the key reason the military distributes them.

[SteamWake]

Your elected officals tend to disagree

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/general-bac...ory?id=9399604

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Your elected officals tend to disagree

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/general-bac...ory?id=9399604

1: 4 elected officials does not qualify as "your elected officials".
2: They can do no more than make a request as the military falls under the exclusive control of The Executive Branch.
3: Is it wise to restructure an entire military to accomidate the 4% who are female?!

Again we see a vocal minority of women portraying themselves as representing the position of all women.

[SteamWake]

Well they aint my elected officals

But yea who dident know this noise would be comming. I'll be interested how far it will go.

[ETR3(SS)]

Can we change the thread title to "Army General finds his balls and in record time loses them again"? I've about reached my boiling point with women and the military. I'm really beginning to think that every female that is a lobbyist, and the females in our government has every man in the government whipped. Not one of them has the balls to say "Wanna do the job? Good! Shut up, sit down, and follow the rules like everyone else!"