The biggest Liar? - Page 2

nikbear · 02-12-09, 05:02 PM

Have to remember that alot of the time Kaleuns didn't stick around to confirm kills,you dived into the cellar or you didn't live to tell anything at all,from alot of the books I've read,alot of kills claimed where when crews heard an eel explode at the end of its run and it was unsafe to go to periscope depth to check,it was just assumed that the eels had hit they're mark

If the U-boat surfaced later and saw oil on the surface and debris it could be rightly assumed that the ship went down,even when it had managed to limp off and keep up with the convoy

there are a few stories of ships being hit and carrying on and being sunk later with two different U-boats claming the kill!

in the end,in the heat of battle,accurate record keeping wasn't a top priority,and as someone rightly mentioned,propaganda was a very effective weapon

LordNeuro"Serbia" · 02-12-09, 06:25 PM

In evry war u have the same thing. The American fighter pilots afthen reported more german plans shot down then they even have in the area. Same thing is in the modern war. In 1999 ir campaing over Kosovo the American pilots reported lots of hits on ground forces , but whean the war was over only 13 tank were destroyd. So it is comon thing imho.
But thet is just my 2c.

Sailor Steve · 02-13-09, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgey

Quote:

Originally Posted by McHibbins

Schepkes tendency to overestimate was well known as "Schepke-Tonnage" between the Cmdrs during WWII.

So, it's safe to say the regarded his reports rather Schepketical?

(could not resist...)

Benny

Excellent!:rotfl:

BasilY · 02-21-09, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Quote:

Originally Posted by BasilY

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/3388.html

"On 10 Dec, 1944, U-1202 reported in a radio telegram the sinking of four ships totalling 26000 tons from a convoy.
In fact, only the unescorted Dan Beard (Master William Robert Wilson) was hit at 13.55 hours by one torpedo in rough seas off Strumble Head, North Wales."

It's kinda hard to mistaken a single unescorted merchant ship for a convoy...

Could have been pure despair.
In Oct 1944 the U-Boats were really hard pressed by the allied. Maybe he needed some sort of success to not meet with some interrogators after coming back and be reagrded a coward (which was quite unhealthy in Germany by that time).

That's true, a captain Hirsacker ( http://uboat.net/men/commanders/495.html ) was shot for cowardice. And he had 3 confirmed kills. Maybe he can be just a little bit more liberal about his claims, he could have survived the war.

Heibges · 02-23-09, 05:25 PM

I worked for a lot of years in sales, and some salesman would be spot on with their estimates, and other would always be over what the account would actually bring in.

kenijaru · 02-23-09, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

....a coward (which was quite unhealthy in Germany by that time).

cowardice in the presence of the enemy has been (as far as i know) punished by the means of a firing-squad not only on the Reich, but also during WW1, not only by the central powers, but also by the Allies (during both World Wars).

Also, I've heard of Argentine soldiers being shot for showing cowardice during the Falklands War. My point being... Cowardice equals firing-squad in military history... since EVER... and probably... today too.

Oneshot/Onekill · 02-24-09, 04:33 AM

I'm also pretty sure that you would have to take into the account, out of all the U-boats, and their crews that were lost during the conflict, that there would be ALOT of missing information. (ie) missing log books, communication logs, burning of official documents as the allies got closer and closer to Berlin. Quite a few of these reports for tonnage, as well as patrol history were given by surviving crew members, some of which were not in a command position.

unterseemann · 02-24-09, 06:25 AM

Humm...just imagine:
You are playing SH3 and attacking a convoy in 1944, DiD, no external camera, and aiming two ships. Would you wait at PD to witness your success and be sure that your targets sink? I guess that you instead dive deep as fast as you can... So what would you write in your log book if you don't have the magical "she's going down..." ???

Sailor Steve · 02-24-09, 03:26 PM

In Aces Of the Deep you would get the report "Breaking-up noises heard, Herr Kaleun!"

Would be nice if SH3 did something similar, or if you could hear them yourself from more than 300 meters away.

Jimbuna · 02-24-09, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unterseemann

Humm...just imagine:
You are playing SH3 and attacking a convoy in 1944, DiD, no external camera, and aiming two ships. Would you wait at PD to witness your success and be sure that your targets sink? I guess that you instead dive deep as fast as you can... So what would you write in your log book if you don't have the magical "she's going down..." ???

Just write in that you received the confirmation....and collect your medal on your return

02-12-09, 05:02 PM	#16
nikbear Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northampton,UK Posts: 1,859 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	Have to remember that alot of the time Kaleuns didn't stick around to confirm kills,you dived into the cellar or you didn't live to tell anything at all,from alot of the books I've read,alot of kills claimed where when crews heard an eel explode at the end of its run and it was unsafe to go to periscope depth to check,it was just assumed that the eels had hit they're markIf the U-boat surfaced later and saw oil on the surface and debris it could be rightly assumed that the ship went down,even when it had managed to limp off and keep up with the convoythere are a few stories of ships being hit and carrying on and being sunk later with two different U-boats claming the kill!in the end,in the heat of battle,accurate record keeping wasn't a top priority,and as someone rightly mentioned,propaganda was a very effective weapon __________________ 'It is not surely known when the grey wolf shall come upon the seat of the gods' Ericksmal.

02-12-09, 06:25 PM	#17
LordNeuro"Serbia" Chief Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 328 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	Compn thing In evry war u have the same thing. The American fighter pilots afthen reported more german plans shot down then they even have in the area. Same thing is in the modern war. In 1999 ir campaing over Kosovo the American pilots reported lots of hits on ground forces , but whean the war was over only 13 tank were destroyd. So it is comon thing imho. But thet is just my 2c. __________________

02-23-09, 05:25 PM	#20
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I worked for a lot of years in sales, and some salesman would be spot on with their estimates, and other would always be over what the account would actually bring in. __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

02-24-09, 06:25 AM	#23
unterseemann Soundman Join Date: May 2005 Location: lyon, france Posts: 144 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 0	Humm...just imagine: You are playing SH3 and attacking a convoy in 1944, DiD, no external camera, and aiming two ships. Would you wait at PD to witness your success and be sure that your targets sink? I guess that you instead dive deep as fast as you can... So what would you write in your log book if you don't have the magical "she's going down..." ??? __________________

02-24-09, 03:26 PM	#24
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	In Aces Of the Deep you would get the report "Breaking-up noises heard, Herr Kaleun!" Would be nice if SH3 did something similar, or if you could hear them yourself from more than 300 meters away. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

02-24-09, 04:33 AM	#22
Oneshot/Onekill Captain Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Drinking a cold one in Davey Jone's locker. Posts: 487 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	I'm also pretty sure that you would have to take into the account, out of all the U-boats, and their crews that were lost during the conflict, that there would be ALOT of missing information. (ie) missing log books, communication logs, burning of official documents as the allies got closer and closer to Berlin. Quite a few of these reports for tonnage, as well as patrol history were given by surviving crew members, some of which were not in a command position.