The Case of Admiral Graf Spee

Today I was watching documentry on Graf Spee fate. Really sad one.. I wonder how come it could not leave Montevideo for Buenos Aires and try to negotiate time there with Argentina government to make full repairs.
Under the Hague convention of 1907 warships could stay in neutral harbour for 24 hours maximum. So if there was impossible to make negotiations for repairs it could of at least stay in Plate estuary changing harbours Montevideo-Buenos Aires; Buenos Aires - Montevideo every 24 hours. Mean time damaged Graf Spee could send request to Berlin for support. I think if Gneisenau with Scharnhorst from north atlantic had had orders to steam south for support, Kriegmarine could avoid first major blow in history :hmm:

[Raptor1]

Wasn't the Graf Spee blockaded (Or, rather, deceived to be so) right outside Montevideo? At which case it would have to run the gauntlet to get to Argentina

I thought it was cornered in the esentuary only without ability to leave it for the open ocean ?
Since Montevideo and Buenos Aires are in the same Plate esentuary this tricky action could be possible ?

[AntEater]

Wouldn't have been possible:
1. British put pressure on Argentina and the rest not to allow the Graf Spee at all.
2. Any kind of relief operation was not possible either. Keep in mind that at the time the two battleships were basically Germany's only resemblance of a battlefleet and 1939, german admirals pretty much thought as in WW1. To leave the german coast without a battleship force was unthinkable.

Also, Gneisenau and Scharnhorst were turbine ships who had a high fuel consumption, a sortie to south america would've been logistically impossible. Even the north Atlantic operation of the two required serveral covert tankers and we're now talking twice the distance.
The only support thinkable was another pocket battleship, but Admiral Scheer was in overhaul at the time while Deutschland/Lützow had suffered engine damage on her north Atlantic operation and was not available either.
Not to mention that the whole operation would've been over before a support ship was there, also this support ship would just have become another hunting object.
Auxilliary cruisers/merchant raiders were the only other Kriegsmarine ships suitable for operations in these areas (long range submarines were not yet available) and those could not hope to fight a battle against warships.

I don't know why everybody always applauds Langsdorff. He saved all of his crew, ok, but he wasn't supposed to be a humanitarian primarily but the commanding officer of a warship which germany could not replace.
If he felt a return was not possible, the best course of action would've been to sail into combat and cause as much damage as possible, as the irreplacable ship was lost anyway.
Another thinkable option would've been to sail to Argentina and sell the ship to the argentine Navy.
I suppose this would not have cause Argentina to join the Axis, but would've tipped political balance in latin america anyway.
And in contrary to the namesake of his ship, Langsdorff faced far better odds than Spee, but of course he thought otherwise.

All in all, even if Langsdorf had sortied and one or serveral british cruisers, the end result would've been the same except for a german propaganda victory.
The RN could replace cruisers, germany couldn't.
When two years later Admiral Scheer returned from the indian ocean, they had a good radar firing solution on a RN cruiser in the Denmark straits without being noticed (night and bad weather), Kapt. Krancke chose not to engage.
Sinking a RN cruiser would've been a major victory, but he could not risk his irreplacable warship suffering a lucky hit and getting sunk in return.

Understood.. However if salvage was not possible I think Germany had to put more effort in finding friendly dialog with Argentina, despite the pressure from Brintain.
Sell ship to Argentina was a sane option too.
But captain himself was too soft, he felt guilty about crew lifes, disinformation of heavy naval British forces waiting outside the esentuary did an impression of escape impossible too.

At the end if I was a captain I would engage in battle anyway. Rather then shoot myself in the head

[Raptor1]

Don't forget that, as far as Langsdorff was concerned, the British force outside the harbor was composed of at least 4 cruisers, a Battlecruiser and an aircraft carrier, he would never have even managed to seriously damage the enemy before being annihilated, I don't think it's wise to sail into a battle which cannot be won and will not gain anything

IIRC the British cruisers were steaming around (And making a ton of excess smoke) right outside the harbor, but I could be wrong...

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Contact

At the end if I was a captain I would engage in battle anyway. Rather then shoot myself in the head

I'm sure your crew would understand!