Whale Wars - Page 2

A Very Super Market · 01-09-09, 12:08 AM

Of course not full-time hunting, thats absurd. Full-time hunting is what brought them down in the first place. The current whaling situation is very sustainable, fact is, the only populations that aren't rebounding are ones that live in high-traffic areas like the US East coast. Collisions, tangling, and other human mishaps bring down more unintended whales than poaching.

As for the JMSDF, I know its a joke, just saying that missile strikes on a dinky little thing like the Irwin might end up killing whales anyways. What exactly is in those things?

The same reason whales don't tend to die from explosive-harpoons is the same reason drugs would be ineffective, too large. Lethal injection for humans costs 86 dollars. (Not counting court costs

) Mature Minke whales (Most numerous) are like, 5-8 tons, so they weigh 10,000-16,000 pounds and are 50-80 times the size of a human. Assuming that most lethal injectees are at least 200 pounds, it would cost $4300-6880 for enough poison. Doesn't seem like much? Poison takes time to circulate through the body, and attacked whales will dive, so you need to fire multiple harpoons at them, which aren't very accurate, coupled with a limited quota for whales. Not very enticing. With exploding ones, a good shot at a crippled one will mercy-kill it at least. I don't think using cyanide would be very humane either.

We don't really eat whale meat, its mostly for the oil and blubber

Zachstar · 01-09-09, 12:24 AM

A harpoon would blow right through it and likely cause a fireball as well as an explosion. A few shells would do the same.

However there is nowhere near enough crap inside it to cause a major problem. The fireball would consume most of the nonmetal parts within seconds and there simply isn't enough mass for it to do anything even if it just fell apart.

Not that I am saying it will happen. They may let their citizens be battled again this year. But eventually enough will be enough.

A Very Super Market · 01-09-09, 12:30 AM

Pirates steal ships and their cargo, so these guys obviously aren't pirates. I think the term terrorist is perfectly fine. Terrorists aren't defined by hiding, they're defined by being unlawful. Ramming and sinking (so they claim) ships that are doing perfectly legal jobs doesn't strike me as very heroic at all.

As for what the Japanese ships do, I don't think firing an explosive harpoon at a ship would be a good idea. It goes WAY past self-defense and into sadism. Problem is, these guys have more sympathy for animals than other human beings, and thats so hypocritical I can't believe it.

Zachstar · 01-09-09, 12:48 AM

Are you kidding me?

Have you looked at the history of Sea Shepherd?

Tell you what. Go ahead and read up.

They have already boarded craft before. If they weren't intercepted their destination was surely to open the locks and flood the ship in my view. And while their PR makes you think they care about those on the ship. There are many inside Sea Shepherd that would rather see the men die (They will never admit this to the public of course). They likely think it is somehow a fitting revenge for killing whales.

BTW even if it is rotten butter. Throwing a substance meant to disupt on the deck of another ship is considered an enemy attack. And justification for weapons hot. They KNOW this and do not care. Several of the crew of these vessels has been harmed by their "Harmless" attacks. From injuries from slipping on the stuff to contact with the substance itself.

ALso they have shown willingness to board another vessel with the intent to sink in my view. Their PR spins the boarding last year as some kind of "Arresting the messenger" but that was after they were caught. Messages can be sent over radio or thowing a stack of papers over when they do their interception.

Zachstar · 01-09-09, 12:51 AM

BTW what I mean by Harpoon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Harpoon

A Very Super Market · 01-09-09, 12:53 AM

Urm, maybe I've been confusing. I'm arguing on your side. I'm fine with them being called terrorists because they are unlawfully attacking ships. I realize that they don't give a damn about the whalers' lives. I'm saying that the terrorists themselves are exaggerating their "sinkings".

Letum · 01-09-09, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baggygreen

Most common reason I can find that people hate whaling is the method.[...]

Natural death in the wild is not much less grim and far more prolonged.
Slow starvation, attack by other whales and finally, drowning.
Give me an explosive harpoon, grinders or anything else that last less than 48 hours any day.

It's a tough world. Life and death are grim for most animals. Being an active part of that
grimness ourselves by hunting and killing does not make it any worse.

01-09-09, 12:08 AM	#16
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Of course not full-time hunting, thats absurd. Full-time hunting is what brought them down in the first place. The current whaling situation is very sustainable, fact is, the only populations that aren't rebounding are ones that live in high-traffic areas like the US East coast. Collisions, tangling, and other human mishaps bring down more unintended whales than poaching. As for the JMSDF, I know its a joke, just saying that missile strikes on a dinky little thing like the Irwin might end up killing whales anyways. What exactly is in those things? The same reason whales don't tend to die from explosive-harpoons is the same reason drugs would be ineffective, too large. Lethal injection for humans costs 86 dollars. (Not counting court costs ) Mature Minke whales (Most numerous) are like, 5-8 tons, so they weigh 10,000-16,000 pounds and are 50-80 times the size of a human. Assuming that most lethal injectees are at least 200 pounds, it would cost $4300-6880 for enough poison. Doesn't seem like much? Poison takes time to circulate through the body, and attacked whales will dive, so you need to fire multiple harpoons at them, which aren't very accurate, coupled with a limited quota for whales. Not very enticing. With exploding ones, a good shot at a crippled one will mercy-kill it at least. I don't think using cyanide would be very humane either. We don't really eat whale meat, its mostly for the oil and blubber __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

01-09-09, 12:24 AM	#17
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	A harpoon would blow right through it and likely cause a fireball as well as an explosion. A few shells would do the same. However there is nowhere near enough crap inside it to cause a major problem. The fireball would consume most of the nonmetal parts within seconds and there simply isn't enough mass for it to do anything even if it just fell apart. Not that I am saying it will happen. They may let their citizens be battled again this year. But eventually enough will be enough. __________________

01-09-09, 12:30 AM	#18
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Pirates steal ships and their cargo, so these guys obviously aren't pirates. I think the term terrorist is perfectly fine. Terrorists aren't defined by hiding, they're defined by being unlawful. Ramming and sinking (so they claim) ships that are doing perfectly legal jobs doesn't strike me as very heroic at all. As for what the Japanese ships do, I don't think firing an explosive harpoon at a ship would be a good idea. It goes WAY past self-defense and into sadism. Problem is, these guys have more sympathy for animals than other human beings, and thats so hypocritical I can't believe it. __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

01-09-09, 12:48 AM	#19
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Are you kidding me? Have you looked at the history of Sea Shepherd? Tell you what. Go ahead and read up. They have already boarded craft before. If they weren't intercepted their destination was surely to open the locks and flood the ship in my view. And while their PR makes you think they care about those on the ship. There are many inside Sea Shepherd that would rather see the men die (They will never admit this to the public of course). They likely think it is somehow a fitting revenge for killing whales. BTW even if it is rotten butter. Throwing a substance meant to disupt on the deck of another ship is considered an enemy attack. And justification for weapons hot. They KNOW this and do not care. Several of the crew of these vessels has been harmed by their "Harmless" attacks. From injuries from slipping on the stuff to contact with the substance itself. ALso they have shown willingness to board another vessel with the intent to sink in my view. Their PR spins the boarding last year as some kind of "Arresting the messenger" but that was after they were caught. Messages can be sent over radio or thowing a stack of papers over when they do their interception. __________________

01-09-09, 12:51 AM	#20
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	BTW what I mean by Harpoon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Harpoon __________________

01-09-09, 12:53 AM	#21
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Urm, maybe I've been confusing. I'm arguing on your side. I'm fine with them being called terrorists because they are unlawfully attacking ships. I realize that they don't give a damn about the whalers' lives. I'm saying that the terrorists themselves are exaggerating their "sinkings". __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!