This guy is as....

[Skybird]

point one on Obama's to-do-list:






And this one, a bit older, but also a good one:




:rotfl:

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Then perhaps you might not want to improperly attribute statements to me that I have not said. Secondly, I don't give any newspaper (Israeli - and especially Palestinian) too much clout. I am capable of forming an opinion independently of newspaper editorials based on my own observations. I'm sure US newspapers have a number of views regarding Mr. Emanuel.

Ok so you don't give any newspaper too much clout. How about a long time serving Republican in the form of Senator Lindsey Graham who has had many dealings with Mr Emanuel. This is the exact statement made by Senator Graham today:

"This is a wise choice by President-elect Obama.

"Rahm knows Capitol Hill and has great political skills. He can be a tough partisan but also understands the need to work together. He is well-suited for the position of White House Chief of Staff.

"I worked closely with him during the presidential debate negotiations which were completed in record time. When we hit a rough spot, he always looked for a path forward. I consider Rahm to be a friend and colleague. He's tough but fair. Honest, direct, and candid. These qualities will serve President-elect Obama well.

"Rahm understands the challenges facing our nation and will, consistent with the agenda set by President-elect Obama, work to find common ground where it exists. I look forward to working with him in his new position and will continue to do everything I can to help find a pathway forward on the difficult problems facing our nation."

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham seems to totally contradict much of what has been said against Rahm Emanuel here by Sea Demon and others. :hmm: His comments also seem to suggest that President Elect Obama has shown wise judgement with this decision.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

Ok so you don't give any newspaper too much clout. How about a long time serving Republican in the form of Senator Lindsey Graham who has had many dealings with Mr Emanuel. This is the exact statement made by Senator Graham today:

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham seems to totally contradict much of what has been said against Rahm Emanuel here by Sea Demon and others. :hmm: His comments also seem to suggest that President Elect Obama has shown wise judgement with this decision.

Oh, so because I typically vote Republican, I have to agree with every opinion they make? At any rate, I don't see Senator Graham addressing his views here in relation to Emanuel's politics vs. Israeli security. Where is it? Not there, right? My own view of Emanuel comes from the fact that he's usually a big mouth who was largely silent when Clinton was inviting Arafat to the White House to discuss "regional security". We all know Israeli security certainly wasn't solidified by these talks. In fact more violence actually resulted for Israel. I have yet to see any statements from Emanuel condemning this approach. On the plus side, Rahm is a Clintonite....which means you can forget Obama taking the country extremely leftward. But nevertheless, he has shown me something that he follows the pattern of those who travel with the left in America. Ideology first.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

I'm sure that the people directly concerned by Israel's security care more about Sea Demon's opinion based on observations of who knows what than about Israeli & Palestinian papers reporting facts

Lord knows your own opinion is completely worthless to these people. I actually have a vote and say in American government.

It's no surprise you have no seeming appreciation for the ability to form opinion based on observation. It's apparent you wait for a newspaper to form one for you.

[AVGWarhawk]

Let call it a draw!

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

I was talking about the Israelis, stop being so full of yourself.

Anyway it highlights something I noted, republican hardliners most of the time think that they care more about Israel than anyone else in the universe. Had Obama picked Netanyahu they would still be moaning that democrats "don't care about security matters". Funny.

Israeli's do care who we put in the White House and the Congress. My vote does have an affect on their security. And I do support Israeli security. Has nothing to do with Party.

But how about you read people's comments, and try to comprehend what they're actually saying. Your pathetic attempt at mockery proves you bring nothing to the table. And your last paragraph shows me you have no clue into what Republican "hardliners" think "most of the time". I outlined specifically before many reasons Democrats have shown a particularly lackluster support for national security issues. And often show ideology as a primary concern. It's in actions and words. Seriously Mikhayl, it is you who have an inflated view of yourself. You have no idea what we believe over here. Like I told you in another thread, I was unimpressed with the average Frenchman's view of American politics when I was in Cannes. Some of these people thought they were up to speed on American politics because they saw Farenheit 9-11. No kidding. The so called new age "European Enlightenment" was not what I expected it to be. I was told by many newspapers that ignorance was largely an American trait. Then I went to Cannes and other parts of France and experienced it first hand. Your paragraphs above and your seeming hostility to independent thought are a caricature of what I heard there.

[AVGWarhawk]

Come on fellas, there is no way, shape or form we will change the world from a forum on the internet. Keep it cool

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

And I replied it's bollocks concerning Emanuel for a variety of reasons, so we'll have to disagree and leave it at that.

About Cannes, I don't know why you keep mentionning it, I live 800km from there and never been there, it's considered by most French as the most overrated city, only snubs go there for vacations. This city is well known for being populated by wealthy retired people, it's a city where the Front National ie the xenophobic far right makes some of its highest scores, so when you tell me you met uneducated hillbillies it's like telling me that fire burns. If you think Cannes is where you'll meet the "average Frenchman" (whatever that is) you're totally out of touch. Oh and since it seems to matter so much to you, I didn't see Fahrenheit and I couldn't be bothered. And yes the French "Lumieres" are long shut off, no news here either.

You have yet to show anything resembling a reason other than "newspapers don't agree". As though those sources have shown to be anything resembling integrity lately. And I went to several places in France, but Cannes is where I stayed for most of the time. I don't want to give the wrong impression though, I did meet some very nice French folks there who seemed bright. You do live in a beautiful country. But once a number of them started talking to me about American politics, that's where I saw some real ignorance on display.

And OK, we disagree on Emanuel. No problem there.

Edit: I agree with Mikhayl with his message to AVG. There! I found something to agree with you on. Have a good night Mikhayl.

[Sea Demon]

Well then Mikhayl, I'm not sure I made my point with you. I already said I know that there are newspapers with various views regarding Emanuel. I don't mind you posting those articles. I simply watched Emanuel during the Clinton administration when Clinton was selling out Israeli security for some proposed and very much hoped for "peace". Some of these proposals did not increase Israeli security and violence looked to be the end product. I have yet to see Emanuel as a rep. condemn these "proposals" even though they were not good for Israel. I have no doubt Emanuel has an affinity towards Israel. But his actions and lack of words on some of these events show me that he is first and foremost securing ideology against an allies security. Doesn't matter how many internet articles you post about the man. His actions and words (or lack thereof) are much greater indication of this. I don't need an opinion in a news article to tell me what opinion I should have of this guy.

I'm both worried about Israeli, and European security with this new administration in Washington. A little concern for our East Asian allies. Although I do believe Emanuel is a pretty tough guy. And I don't believe he wants Israel to be threatened. But like I said, he is more beholden to party and ideology by action and words. post a million articles. Wont change a thing. Only Emanuel through words and deeds can do that. Got it?

[Konovalov]

I was going to post the same material Mikhayl regarding Emanuel. We will see in 4 years time if Sea Demon's concerns were with or without foundation. My view from all that I can find on Emanuel, be it his actions, his comments, the views of some Republicans, and indeed his fathers views is that the last thing he is going to do is sell out Israel.

All this makes even more ridiculous the comments by Joe the plumber when he agreed with a Republican supporter who said "I guarantee ya, a vote for Obama is a vote for the death of Israel." Tragic pre-election scaremongering that didn't work. Even Shep Smith from Fox News challenged Samuel Wurzelbacher during a Fox News interview. It really was cringe worthy stuff from the plumber.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

I was going to post the same material Mikhayl regarding Emanuel. We will see in 4 years time if Sea Demon's concerns were with or without foundation. My view from all that I can find on Emanuel, be it his actions, his comments, the views of some Republicans, and indeed his fathers views is that the last thing he is going to do is sell out Israel.

All this makes even more ridiculous the comments by Joe the plumber when he agreed with a Republican supporter who said "I guarantee ya, a vote for Obama is a vote for the death of Israel." Tragic pre-election scaremongering that didn't work. Even Shep Smith from Fox News challenged Samuel Wurzelbacher during a Fox News interview. It really was cringe worthy stuff from the plumber.

Yeah, Joe needs to stick to plumbing. My concern here with Emanuel was not over Israel. It is over the fact that he does not work across the isle and can be very nasty. I do not see Emanuel as part of any change and working in across the isle.

[August]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

All this makes even more ridiculous the comments by Joe the plumber when he agreed with a Republican supporter who said "I guarantee ya, a vote for Obama is a vote for the death of Israel." Tragic pre-election scaremongering that didn't work. Even Shep Smith from Fox News challenged Samuel Wurzelbacher during a Fox News interview. It really was cringe worthy stuff from the plumber.

The guy is not a political operative, he's just a plumber as you point out. Half the stuff said on this board would also qualify as cringe worthy, but I don't see national media flocking to interview the people who posted it or dig into their backgrounds to see what dirt they can find.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

Articles are not just pieces of (virtual) paper, if you read you'll see they tell about facts and actions, while so far you just offered opinion.
Now, care to provide examples of Emanuel putting his party before Israel's security instead of just repeating that he does ?

Articles are merely opinion pieces in and of themselves. They also ignore facts about circumstances if it doesn't portray what they want to portray. These pieces never discuss Emanuel's silence when Clinton was giving concessions to the terrorist Yasser Arafat and what became of that. More violence for Israeli citizens. Less security for their nation. Sometimes you just have to look at people's actions and words and form your own opinions. Is independent thought becoming a lost art on your continent?

I already told you that it was my opinion. The fact that I'm not on an editorial board of a newspaper room means nothing. There's a reason newspapers are dying......at least here in America. Because they selectively display "facts" to form opinions. Like Konovalov said, we'll see in the future if my own personal concerns were with or without foundation. And for the record, I hope I'm wrong. But from what I see, regarding Emanuel's lack of any words of condemnation for the actions of a previous Democrat administration that directly set the environment for more violence for Israel, gives me a pretty good idea that ideology for him, party loyalty indeed, came in that instance before the national security of one of our allies in that region. I do praise Mr. Emanuel for his support for the Iraq War. Don't know too much about his current outlook on that though. We'll see.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by August

The guy is not a political operative, he's just a plumber as you point out. Half the stuff said on this board would also qualify as cringe worthy, but I don't see national media flocking to interview the people who posted it or dig into their backgrounds to see what dirt they can find.

Bingo!!

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Bingo!!

Yet he was recruited by the McCain campaign and was up front and centre at some of McCain's rallies, appeared on almost every show on the Fox News channel (Hannity and Colmes, Your World with Neil Cavuto, Fox and Friends, On the Record with Greta van Sust), some of them multiple times such as Hannity and Neil Cavuto. In effect he was a political operative for the McCain capaign. So I have to disagree with ya on that one.

Some of Joe the Plumber as a Fox News pundit on issues such as economics and Obama's supposed questionable loyalty to the US:





But back to the topic. I agree with AVG Warhawk and share his concern regarding Rahm Emanuel and his partisan past. But as I have clearly expressed earlier I don't see anyting to worry about regarding Israel's security during an Obama presidency. Once again, time will confirm if any of my or your fears have any foundation.