Supreme court squashes Bush's Guantanamo policy

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I don't see it as Un-Constitutional at all since our Constitution does not apply to foreigners. They can call it an illegal act based on another law, but not on our Constitution. That part bothers me.

-S

The constitution is not limited to citizens or foreigners. The Constitution defines and limits the power and authority of the government.

The fourteenth amendment specifically states:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


While the first part defines what a citizen is, the rest of the section specifically uses the term person and not citizen. With respect to the political prisoners in Gitmo, the very last phrase of the amendment applies.

"nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

It was not an accident that the word person is used instead of citizen. If the congress in 1868, meant that this amendment only would apply to citizens, they would have used the word citizen throughout the amendment.

A prisoner at Gitmo is under the jurisdiction of the United States and therefore has the right to equal protection of the laws.

So yes the Constitution does not apply to foreigners, but it does apply to how the US government treats foreigners under US jurisdiction.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

I am not aware of any cases of extraordinary rendition being practiced on US citizens. Not to say I agree with the practice; but that is what you are implying, right?

PD

No, i ment that Guantanamo being US base has to uphold the US constitution in its practises.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Your Dreaming :rotfl:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ccount_balance

List of countries by current account balance

(million US$)

1 People's Republic of China 363,000 2007 est.
2 Japan 201,300 2007 est.
3 Germany 185,100 2007 est.
4 Saudi Arabia 88,890 2007 est.
5 Russia 74,000 2007 est.
6 Switzerland 67,890 2007 est.
7 Netherlands 59,280 2007 est.
8 Norway 55,820 2007 est.
9 Kuwait 51,490 2007 est.
10 Singapore 41,390 2007 est.
11 United Arab Emirates 36,110 2007 est.
12 Algeria 31,500 2007 est.
13 Sweden 30,190 2007 est.
14 Canada 28,460 2007 est.
15 Malaysia 25,930 2007 est.
16 Republic of China 23,800 2007 est.
17 Hong Kong 19,870 2007 est.
18 Iran 19,000 2007 est.
19 Finland 17,120 2007 est.
20 Venezuela 17,020 2007 est.
21 Nigeria 14,610 2007 est.
22 Angola 13,640 2007 est.
23 Austria 12,610 2007 est.
24 Libya 11,710 2007 est.
25 Luxembourg 11,300 2007 est.
26 Argentina 11,154 Dec 2007
27 Belgium 11,040 2007 est.
28 Indonesia 10,210 2007 est.
29 Brazil 10,200 2007 est.
30 Philippines 9,040 2007 est.
31 Thailand 8,619 2007 est.
32 Chile 8,184 2007 est.
33 Iraq 7,802 2007 est.
34 Qatar 7,733 2007 est.
35 Azerbaijan 7,535 2007 est.
36 Israel 5,941 2007 est.
37 Denmark 4,699 2007 est.
38 Trinidad and Tobago 4,288 2007 est.
39 Oman 3,785 2007 est.
40 South Korea 3,700 2007 est.
41 Egypt 3,115 2007 est.
42 Uzbekistan 3,045 2007 est.
43 Botswana 2,231 2007 est.
44 Peru 2,045 2007 est.
45 Bahrain 2,009 2007 est.
46 Burma 1,676 2007 est.
47 Gabon 1,626 2007 est.
48 Bolivia 1,325 2007 est.
49 Congo 1,094 2007 est.
50 Namibia 1,065 2007 est.
51 Côte d'Ivoire 1,056 2007 est.
52 Turkmenistan 689.3 2007 est.
53 Bangladesh 683 2007 est.
54 Morocco 433.9 2007 est.
55 Papua New Guinea 314 2007 est.
56 Equatorial Guinea 250 2007 est.
57 Yemen 178 2007 est.
58 Zambia 150 2007 est.
59 British Virgin Islands 134.3 1999
60 Cook Islands 26.67 2005
61 Palau 15.09 FY03/04
62 Republic of Macedonia 5 2007 est.
63 Tuvalu 2.323 1998
64 Samoa -2.428 FY03/04
65 Tonga -4.321 FY04/05
66 Comoros -17 2005 est.
67 Kiribati -19.87 2004
68 Swaziland -26.71 2007 est.
69 Lesotho -28 2007 est.
70 Vanuatu -28.35 2003
71 Gambia -31.69 2007 est.
72 Federated States of Micronesia -34.3 FY05 est.
73 Anguilla -42.87 2003 est.
74 Belize -54 2007 est.
75 São Tomé and Príncipe -58 2007 est.
76 Paraguay -82 2007 est.
77 Antigua and Barbuda -83.4 2004
78 Uruguay -100 2007 est.
79 Tajikistan -102 2007 est.
80 Burundi -137.3 2007 est.
81 Seychelles -141 2007 est.
82 Chad -144.5 2007 est.
83 Togo -165.5 2007 est.
84 Rwanda -172.8 2007 est.
85 Guinea -175 2007 est.
86 Malawi -180 2007 est.
87 Haiti -184.8 2007 est.
88 Cape Verde -218 2007 est.
89 Guyana -229.7 2007 est.
90 Uganda -241 2007 est.
91 Armenia -275.1 2007 est.
92 Benin -278.8 2007 est.
93 Eritrea -343.1 2007 est.
94 Laos -355 2007 est.
95 Zimbabwe -409 2007 est.
96 Cambodia -410 2007 est.
97 Malta -411 2007 est.
98 Honduras -446 2007 est.
99 Fiji -465.8 2006 est.
100 Cameroon -501 2007 est.
101 Mauritius -552 2007 est.
102 Moldova -569 2007 est.
103 Ecuador -600 2007 est.
104 Kyrgyzstan -677.3 2007 est.
105 Burkina Faso -710 2007 est.
106 Mozambique -726 2007 est.
107 Cuba -750 2007 est.
108 Nicaragua -754 2007 est.
109 Panama -861 2007 est.
110 Albania -918 2007 est.
111 El Salvador -929 2007 est.
112 Tunisia -935 2007 est.
113 Kenya -980 2007 est.
114 Senegal -1,034 2007 est.
115 Sri Lanka -1,118 2007 est.
116 Madagascar -1,145 2007 est.
117 Vietnam -1,199 2007 est.
118 Cyprus -1,236 2007 est.
119 Costa Rica -1,259 2007 est.
120 Tanzania -1,422 2007 est.
122 Slovenia -1,429 2007 est.
123 Ghana -1,470 2007 est.
124 Jamaica -1,573 2007 est.
125 Georgia -1,582 2007 est.
126 Jordan -1,690 2007 est.
127 Guatemala -1,772 2007 est.
128 Ethiopia -1,851 2007 est.
129 Dominican Republic -1,993 2007 est.
130 Bosnia and Herzegovina -2,021 2007 est.
131 Syria -2,160 2007 est.
132 Serbia -2,451 2005 est.
133 Belarus -3,056 2007 est.
134 Estonia -3,092 2007 est.
135 Slovakia -3,119 2007 est.
136 Lebanon -3,337 2007 est.
137 Iceland -3,384 2007 est.
138 Croatia -3,836 2007 est.
139 Ukraine -3,890 2007 est.
140 Sudan -4,465 2007 est.
141 Kazakhstan -4,643 2007 est.
142 Colombia -5,132 2007 est.
143 Lithuania -5,320 2007 est.
144 Mexico -5,414 2007 est.
145 Czech Republic -5,701 2007 est.
146 Latvia -5,839 2007 est.
147 Pakistan -6,477 2007 est.
148 Hungary -6,681 2007 est.
149 Bulgaria -7,189 2007 est.
150 New Zealand -9,973 2007 est.
151 Ireland -12,600 2007 est.
152 South Africa -16,280 2007 est.
153 Poland -18,130 2007 est.
154 India -18,530 2007 est.
155 Portugal -18,530 2007 est.
156 Romania -20,950 2007 est.
157 France -35,940 2007 est.
158 Turkey -36,270 2007 est.
159 Greece -36,400 2007 est.
160 Australia -50,960 2007 est.
161 Italy -57,940 2007 est.
162 United Kingdom -111,000 2007 est.
163 Spain -126,300 2007 est.
164 United States -987,100 2007 est.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

No, i ment that Guantanamo being US base has to uphold the US constitution in its practises.

Understood.

PD

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

No, i ment that Guantanamo being US base has to uphold the US constitution in its practises.

True, for its US Citizen detainees and it's soldiers. Foreigners need not apply.

-S

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

True, for its US Citizen detainees and it's soldiers. Foreigners need not apply.

-S

Your supreme court ruled otherwise, they voted for it, democracy at work.
I know, it sucks sometimes but options are far worse.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ccount_balance

164 United States -987,100 2007 est.

188

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2187rank.html

[Ducimus]

Buy now, pay later. It's a concept i really hate.

[Skybird]

America's highest court has spoken, and although it was a split decision, it is a valid sentence and finally, after so long time of abuse, marks a first step of reason in an attemtp to find back to the road of legal principles to which also the united states have subscribed and which to defend and spread in the world they claim at every opportunity, since decades and almost two centuries. What one demands from others to follow, or wants them to convince of, one must practice oneself in order to set a convincing example. Also, I dare say that the court is in line with the majority opinion of the American people, and I even dare say: the vast majority of the american people. So now there must be consequences in form of changes and corrections to most obvious misgovernment and bad disgrace, wether the Submans of this world like it or not, and carry on to excuse the wrong or not. Instead of trying to convince those who won't be told anyway (which experience tells to be a totally wasted effort anyway), we better start thinking about the consequences that must be realised - despite these dyed-in-the-wool-"Americentrists". Succeeding in that, history will leave these people behind sooner or later. And that is good so.

but let's npot be mistaken that the cvourt has not discovered the holy grail, and so the news today is twosplit: I think Guantanamo has existed for the longest time. That is the good news, but I also think that activities like Guantanamo will be shifted and put away from the sights of the public and the world's awareness, and being carried on in the secrecy of black operations, the secret services, and in the realm of invisibility and lacking public awareness and lacking political countercontrol, and missing checks and balances. so I think that what will change is that a guantanamo that we knew off will be replaced with something we will not learn about, but serves the same purpose.

that's why I applaud the court's decision, but I am not getting enthusiastic. It most likely will cause a cosmetic face-lifting, and not more. Why do I think so? Because that is what I would do in their place if having their motivations.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Buy now, pay later. It's a concept i really hate.

Oh yes, me too. If one apple costs one thaler, and I have three thaler, I can buy one, two or three apples - not more.

Basic math, first school class.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Buy now, pay later. It's a concept i really hate.

And if someone decides not to pay, moneys worth comes the same you wipe your behind with.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Buy now, pay later. It's a concept i really hate.

I like the term "credit card conservative" which has been used to describe our current administration.

Spend spend spend, but pass on the pay pay pay on to a future generation(s). Hey grandkids can't vote yet so what's the concern?

As long as we can stand up and say that we did not raise taxes, everyone will think we are fiscal conservatives right

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Your supreme court ruled otherwise, they voted for it, democracy at work.
I know, it sucks sometimes but options are far worse.

The Constitution upholds democracy, not the other way around as you describe.

-S

[The WosMan]

This has set a very dangerous precedent in so many ways. However, the Supreme Court is not the final say. The president could go back to congress and get another law passed.

As far as I am concerned there is no need to take prisoners anymore. Our military should just now shoot to kill any terrorist or enemy that surrenders on the battlefield.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by The WosMan

This has set a very dangerous precedent in so many ways. However, the Supreme Court is not the final say. The president could go back to congress and get another law passed.

As far as I am concerned there is no need to take prisoners anymore. Our military should just now shoot to kill any terrorist or enemy that surrenders on the battlefield.

Exactly. That way the demo's will opt for going back to Guantanamo instead of outright killing them.

-S