F-35 Delayed Again

[bookworm_020]

I can see Australia not getting the full amount of fighters they put their had up for (up to 100). The RAAF will be selecting recon drone in the near future (the Global Hawk seems to be leading the charge for it). I can see more drones in the future, with a greater range of roles and abilities taking over from manned aircraft.

It makes sese in some respects, do you risk a drone worth $100 million or a plane worth $300+ million with pilot in a risky high threat situation???:hmm:

[Steel_Tomb]

ultimately it comes down to fewer body bags so its easier for politicians to play their war games without hurting public opinion polls. people need to die in war for it to remain a bad thing, if it was just robots that died in war there would be much more of it which would be a bad thing. It will be a long time before a computer is better than a person.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by bookworm_020

I can see Australia not getting the full amount of fighters they put their had up for (up to 100). The RAAF will be selecting recon drone in the near future (the Global Hawk seems to be leading the charge for it). I can see more drones in the future, with a greater range of roles and abilities taking over from manned aircraft.

It makes sese in some respects, do you risk a drone worth $100 million or a plane worth $300+ million with pilot in a risky high threat situation???:hmm:

With drones the inital cost is high but because they can be mass produced and operators do not need to be given as many costly training and supply measures as fighter pilots.. The cost quickly drops.

It is only because the soviet union fell that we are still using manned fighters. Otherwise they would likely have started deploying lasers and they envisioned unmanned drone uses back in the 60s...

And because they can be made smaller. They can start to be transported to the combat zone by transport aircraft. Such as C-130s being converted as carrier aircraft for a small squad of drones.

Add the fact that railguns and stealth would lay waste to any defences beforehand and the drones can come in and clear the entire area with minimal loss of aircraft such as an operation would require.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

ultimately it comes down to fewer body bags so its easier for politicians to play their war games without hurting public opinion polls. people need to die in war for it to remain a bad thing, if it was just robots that died in war there would be much more of it which would be a bad thing. It will be a long time before a computer is better than a person.

Are human pilots better at moral judgement? yes. For split second actions to avoid loss of mission or aircraft? no...

To prevent war from happening you do not elect war mongers to president and congress. But the fact is once the railguns and fleets of drones come online the power of the .gov will grow rapidly.

And unless we find a way to get off this rock.. War is going to happen regardless. The planet already can't support 6 billion and the population is still going to climb rapidly. Eventually somone is going to start fighting and we have to be prepared to fight regardless. That is why we need to stop wasting time on dumb wars.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Nahh, the fighter jocks will eventually re-qualify to space jocks. The athmosphere is too dense to support their desire for faster and cooler-looking machines for much longer :p

This is true! Now where is my video??? Crud - must be at home. Must post next gen fighter stuff!

-S

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by bookworm_020

I can see Australia not getting the full amount of fighters they put their had up for (up to 100). .

I can see many customers, perhaps the majority not getting the original number of F-35s they signed up for. It's a snowball effect.

It makes sese in some respects, do you risk a drone worth $100 million or a plane worth $300+ million with pilot in a risky high threat situation???:hmm:

$100 million is a drone that does EVERYTHING. Drones, at least initially, will just be cow truck bombs that fly to point X and drop a PGM or two. Which would probably run more in the $20-$30 million range. Which is big for countries like Australia that would be limited to 100 manned JSF. Instead of spending $7 billion on 100 F-35s...you can:
- buy about 150 UCAV for $3.75 billion. Which will have double the combat radius the F-35 will hauling the same two PGMs. And leave you some money to buy a handful of F-22s down the road.
- which will increase the striking reach and power (sortie rate) of the RAAF. More than any manned fighter, except for perhaps the F-22 would.
- Not worry about manning. Because Qantas won't be able to offer your UCAV two-three times more per year to fly for them. And you won't have to shell out another couple million to train a new pilot after that happens.
- Not worry about training expenses nearly as much as you do now. Because a UCAV won't need 40 hours of flying a month minimum just to stay sharp. Nor will they be lost to night training crashes or collide during tactical training.

The APA isn't thrilled with the F-35:
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-JSF-Analysis.html

But does what the Aussies think matter anyways?
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com/...d-decides.html

PD

[SUBMAN1]

Time to post another video! Drones are very important in the future role with F-35. They will be the decoys to get the hidden sam sites to light up!

I have a mock opening shot in a war engagement involving F-35 / Drones / F-22/ and B-2.

Basically the short answer is, anyone that doesn't have stealth is dead. EF2000, Rafale, SU-35, Grippen, all need not apply. They are even marginal as defensive weapons - more of a target than anything, and their reduced RCS doesn't even help.

-S

[Zachstar]

B-2? What on earth would that Expensive beast be doing in a nondesperate combat situation?

A lucky shot can send a billion dollars crashing to the ground.

No B-2, mass the drones in after popping anything but manpads and accept 10-15 of them being downed per airfield, port, or other major objective from hidden assets. 5 if they have good stealth (Much easier with a drone than a manned craft)

Because of the extreme cost of the B-2 we MUST keep them in reserve in case a desperate situation develops.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Time to post another video! Drones are very important in the future role with F-35. They will be the decoys to get the hidden sam sites to light up!
-S

Why are drones unable to engage these SAM sites at least as well, if not better than an F-35?

And people seem to forget that F-35s won't be playing against today's SAMs. They will be playing against the Air Defenses of 15-20 years from now.

PD

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Nahh, the fighter jocks will eventually re-qualify to space jocks. The athmosphere is too dense to support their desire for faster and cooler-looking machines for much longer :p

From "The Tough Guide to the Known Galaxy":
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...ceguideS-Z.htm

SPACE FIGHTERS. Small, fast, highly maneuverable COMBAT SPACECRAFT. They have very limited range (never FTL), and no crew habitability to speak of; they can only operate for at most a few hours at a time. The crew is limited to one person, or occasionally two. At least among EARTH HUMANS and ALIENS WTH FOREHEAD RIDGES, these are usually males in their early twenties, known for their swagger, coolness, and fast moves on any attractive female of an INTERBREEDABLE species. (Who REALLY ALIENS use to crew their Space Fighters is not known.)
Because of their short range, Space Fighters usually must be carried into action by TRANSPORTER ships, though in some cases they will be carried piggyback on other, larger Combat Spacecraft. Their tactical value is unclear, since the are really just small spacecraft themselves. Since they don't operate in an essentially different medium, the way aircraft operate in a different medium from surface ships, there is no fundamental reason why they should be all that much faster. In naval terms they are more analogous to motor gunboats than to airplanes.
Mostly Space Fighters fight each other, which is logical enough in itself but doesn't explain why they are used in the first place. Only two other missions can be identified for them:
1) To destroy gargantuan BATTLE STATIONS, which are vulnerable only to attack by Space Fighters.
2) To give prominent roles to young males in their early twenties, so they can display their swagger, coolness, and fast moves on any attractive female of an Interbreedable species.

Of course I wonder how the USAF will react when someone tells them "There ain't no steath in space"

http://projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3w.html#nostealth

Originally Posted by Zachstar

And because they can be made smaller. They can start to be transported to the combat zone by transport aircraft. Such as C-130s being converted as carrier aircraft for a small squad of drones.

Parasite Fighters anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasite_fighter

[Jacky Fisher]

why am I not surprised.

Unless you have a darn good reason, don't build the bloody thing.

[Tchocky]

Well, the price per aircraft of the B-2 is a bit overstated. Huge R&D costs (it's a staggeringly amazng machine) were absorbed over 21 aircraft as opposed to 132 (or whatever).

[Jacky Fisher]

That's why you should stick with stuff that works, especially in an economy like ours right now.

[nikimcbee]

okay, I need to get up to par on all these new jets:
Su-30


F-35:


F-22



Su-47

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Why are drones unable to engage these SAM sites at least as well, if not better than an F-35?

And people seem to forget that F-35s won't be playing against today's SAMs. They will be playing against the Air Defenses of 15-20 years from now.

PD

Do you think that a 4th gen fighter can penetrate against current Russian built Sams or against Patriot? Not a chance. F-35 is needed now against any country putting in cheap new Russian Sams. 15 to 20 yrs from now, it will be even worse! And to top it off, Stealth is not invulnerable - a low frequency radar wave can find it but to declutter the background picture will take a treamendous amount a Gflops to process. Maybe in 15 years that capability will exist at a cheap level.

The drones are equipped with Harm's, but range is on the side of the Sam's, so the SAM lights up and kills the drone, with the F-35's finding the sam after the light up. This will also trick the enemy into thinking the drones are the main wave, but the F-35 will already be behind enemy lines.

-S