Need some advice for manual plotting

[Joe S]

I know this doesnt appeal to a lot of players, but rather than pausing I like to let my fire control team help out a bit. I simulate this by allowing contacts to be shown on the map . It simulates the fire control team estimating the range and plotting it on the map, and eliminates the need to pause. You still have plenty to do if you dont want to pause the game, and with fast moving convoy with escorts the time factor does put pressure on you to be efficient with your method.
Ideally, I would like to simulate the fire control team by having the computer show only the contacts you have identified in the scope, and a higher level of difficulty would plot it based on your range estimate and bearing. In a way, this is done on the attack map. but we cant mark the attack map so you cant do a time/distance calculation without keeping the scope up.

[Joe S]

I accidently hit the wrong key and posted my reply before I was done, so here is the rest of it.
In real life, without the use of radar or sonar, range estimation is critical in order to estimate speed. If you know the speed, range estimation is almost irrelevant for fire control purposes. Using my method, when I get in close, I estimate range with the stadimeter to simulate what a captain would have to do, but the key thing is to get the angle on the bow and speed correctly. to each his own, your mileage may vary, whatever method you settle on , Sink 'em ALL! Joe S

[Viduka]

Originally Posted by Joe S

I know this doesnt appeal to a lot of players, but rather than pausing I like to let my fire control team help out a bit. I simulate this by allowing contacts to be shown on the map . It simulates the fire control team estimating the range and plotting it on the map, and eliminates the need to pause.

Ideally, I would like to simulate the fire control team by having the computer show only the contacts you have identified in the scope, and a higher level of difficulty would plot it based on your range estimate and bearing.

I would love to see a mod that implements this. I used to use your method in SH3, but found it was giving the range away a little too easily having map contacts showing on the map, even when they are little box shapes that don't give away the contacts direction.

For SH4 i've gone with using the sonar when underwater to plot everything (quite innacurate) or using the stadimeter with it's auto speed calculating function (also quite innacurate).

Does anyone know of any mods that simulate the above idea, of only showing map contacts for ships that the periscope is locked onto?

I know in the SH3 days there was something similar along those lines, where a little circle appeared around a contact when you hovered a mouse over it. This proved difficult to use but at least seemed a little bit more realistic.

[Pisces]

Well, if you can't do it in 3 minutes, why not skip it and do it in 6. You just need to divide the measured length by 2. Or 3 if the last measurement was 9 minutes ago. Or 4 .... do you see what I'm getting at? More time means better speed accuracy anyway.

[Seminole]

More time means better speed accuracy anyway.

Is that really true?..or is it just something that is supposed to be accepted without question?....:hmm:


I plot for a minute and a half..two minutes...three minutes or even ten minutes...the end result is almost always the same...and I have done a lot of calculations these past few months.

Then ...just for argument's sake... lets say you do a precisely accurate time plot. What can you actually do with the number that will make a big in game difference? The TDC only accepts whole numbers (enter a 8.5 and it shows up as a 9.0)...so what becomes of your 8.477 knots per hour uber accurate speed calculation? My experience is that it doen't matter much as long as the speed estimate is within round ball park numbers. You can enter in a 8...a 8.5..or a 9....chances are your torpedoes will hit home provided your other plots are within reason....and you aren't firing from thousands of yards away...

[kylania]

Ctrl-LClick on the map should center the map on your sub.

[doulos05]

More time means better speed accuracy anyway.
Sort of. More time averages out any inaccuracies (because they never actually hold a fixed speed perfectly, they're within +/- 1 knot of that speed). However, if you can manage what works best is more data points (that is plots) on your map. Sounds to me, however, like your problem isn't that 3 minutes isn't long enough but that you can't complete everything you need to do close enough to 3 minutes to be able to have accurate data. The answer here really is to either pause and do it on the nav map or to pause and do it on paper out of game on MoBo. That most accurately simulates what actually happened on a fleet boat in WWII. In reality, when say, getting plot data using the periscope, as the Approach Officer (which is the role you're playing in-game during an approach this is what's actually happening.

Approach officer (that's you in this case): "Standby for observation."
TDC Officer (member of plotting team): "Bearing 317." (Could also be your sonarman if your PK is turned off.)
AO: "Up scope."
Periscope Assistant raises the scope and puts it on the bearing announced by the TDC officer.
AO: "Bearing three-one-seven, mark."
Periscope assistant rings the bearing buzzer or announces the bearing if the transmitter is not functional. Plotting team notes bearing
AO: "Range 4000 yards, mark."
Periscope assistant: "Range four-zero-zero-zero yards."
AO: "Down scope. Angle on Bow four-five degrees."
Plotting team notes range and AOB, the AO examines the map to control the approach.

As you can see, there are a lot of other people helping with the plotting during the approach so I don't think pausing should be considered cheating. (Reference: http://www.hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm#chap05)

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by Seminole

Is that really true?..or is it just something that is supposed to be accepted without question?....:hmm:


I plot for a minute and a half..two minutes...three minutes or even ten minutes...the end result is almost always the same...and I have done a lot of calculations these past few months.

Then ...just for argument's sake... lets say you do a precisely accurate time plot. What can you actually do with the number that will make a big in game difference? The TDC only accepts whole numbers (enter a 8.5 and it shows up as a 9.0)...so what becomes of your 8.477 knots per hour uber accurate speed calculation? My experience is that it doen't matter much as long as the speed estimate is within round ball park numbers. You can enter in a 8...a 8.5..or a 9....chances are your torpedoes will hit home provided your other plots are within reason....and you aren't firing from thousands of yards away...

In regards to the TDC you probably mean the 2 numbers on the left panel? I was thinking more like setting the speed dial inbetween the marks. They don't snap to whole numbers, do they? And you're right, if you fire close it's not going to be such a big deal. But if you're at couple of kyards distance, OR probably more likely... fire at a fast warship it might matter.

I'll explain why longer time is more accurate than short. First there is allways uncertainty in your plots. Range may be a bit off (even if you're good at it) and bearing may be a degree off too. Especially considering a degree is 350 yards wide at 20kyards range. Double that for 2 positions and the distance inbetween begins to lack confidence.

Now let's say you have a target doing 6.5 knot's on average, but you don't know that yet while you plot positions for the next 3 minutes. Let's assume for a moment they are the true target positions, not from periscope sightings. In 3 minutes the distance between the plots measures up to be about 700 yards. (Hmm, did I say something about confidence??? If it were periscope sightings it would have been lost in the uncertainty, depending on the range they were from) Or 600 depending on how good you place the measuring line. Suggesting a speed between 6 or 7 knots. Right, but that's about a 15% difference. Meaning the torpedo lead can also be off that much. If you wait until you made a plot at the 12th minute (4 intervals of 3 minutes) the target should be at 2600 yards. That 's a distincty different measure than 2800 yards, which would be what you expect if the 7 knot was right. Or the same, 2400 yards if your 6 knots was right. Waiting a bit longer can get you an extra decimal, but a quarter knot would do enough. Knots to a thousandth is rediculous, even I know that.

But calmness during plotting is far more important than speed accuracy. Dinsdale/Bernard allready has impecable timing in showing up. No need for you to help him.