Renown vs. Reality - Page 2

Ducimus · 04-22-08, 10:45 PM

I think anyone whos spent a lenght of time in the military can tell you that the renown system is a pretty good simulation of how the military works, in and of itself.

Logistics are what they are, good or bad. Supplies will be limited. Who gets first dibbs on the supplies? Ive often heard the phrase, "It's not who you know, it's who you ....... <AHEM> .. anyway, thats the raw blunt picture.

Simple fact of the matter is, not everyone, had access to everything. I think it was probably just as true for the Germans in WW2, as it is for US serviceman in the modern age. Some units just had priority over the others, simple fact. A unit i was in once, was considered a priority unit. What the unit commander asked for, he got. Why? Mission presidence, and simply put, our unit was Renown for being hard chargers. We went it, kicked ass, got the job done, and everybody knew it. WIthout exaggeration, Town patrol on more then a couple occasions cut me some slack, simply because of what unit i was in. Again... RENOWN.

Then theres the ugly truth, of the "good ole boy system". If supplies are limited, the personal in charge of supplies, arent going to let loose the choice bits to just anybody. You may have to do them a favor or he may have to owe you a favor before they remember, "oh yeah, we got one of those". Again, renown (or "Brownie points" as it's sometimes called

) Or in the case of some units, if they have a reputation, what they ask for, they get. Even if they have to haul it in special delivery. If the unit didnt have the clout to pull those strings, they woudln't get the item in question. (somebody else would

)

Tessa · 04-22-08, 11:35 PM

Some good points there, made me think of another aspect that factored largely in your ability to get what you want/need - Heroism & Propoganda. In all branches, soldiers that were experts at what they did (like Prien, Kretschmer, Rommel, Erich Hartmann (Luftwaffe, 355 kills)) had their exploits and heroic actions broadcast throughout Germany. Besides being an exceptional military soldier, they were an asset to the country as a symbol of the glory of the Fatherland as well as being great military leaders.

Had Prien, Kretschmer or Shubert remained in the Kriegsmarine for the duration of the war I doubt they'd of had little problems getting a VIIC/41 almost right out of the shipyard as it was completed, or been chosen to be commanders for the first XXI boats. As the game can't objectively evaluate your patrol, the renown system was pretty well thought out as both the measure of your rank, commendations, and ability to purchase new equip as soon as it became available.

the.terrabyte.pirate · 04-23-08, 07:05 AM

See, I always liked the fact that you earned renown for not only sinking ships, but also for reaching and patrolling your assigned grid.

I figured that although sinking ships was the primary objective, and a good tonnage patrol would forgive almost any sin, a captain that constantly disobeyed orders and went waltzing through the atlantic at a whim looking for ships to sink would not be rewarded in the long term.

From what I understand, the German armed forces tended to be... disciplined.

I'd like to have the patrol grid renown returned. It's a simulator after all, and that includes simulating following orders from your commanders. The way I figure is that even if you're sailing at 100% realism, manual targetting and all, unless you're travelling to, reaching, and patrolling your assigned grid for 24 hours, then you're not truly simulating a uboat patrol. You can always go tonnage hunting afterwards with BDU's blessing.

Feel free to disagree, but you know I'm right.

[edit] Oh, and before anyone gets haughty, I know why the renown for reaching the patrol grid was removed. But I still think that it was a reasonable feature to keep, or at least leave as optional. It saves having to edit the config files.

btw, does anyone remember how much renown was given in stock shiii for reaching and patrolling your assigned grid? I've forgotten.

Able72 · 04-23-08, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the.terrabyte.pirate

See, I always liked the fact that you earned renown for not only sinking ships, but also for reaching and patrolling your assigned grid.

I figured that although sinking ships was the primary objective, and a good tonnage patrol would forgive almost any sin, a captain that constantly disobeyed orders and went waltzing through the atlantic at a whim looking for ships to sink would not be rewarded in the long term.

From what I understand, the German armed forces tended to be... disciplined.

I'd like to have the patrol grid renown returned. It's a simulator after all, and that includes simulating following orders from your commanders. The way I figure is that even if you're sailing at 100% realism, manual targetting and all, unless you're travelling to, reaching, and patrolling your assigned grid for 24 hours, then you're not truly simulating a uboat patrol. You can always go tonnage hunting afterwards with BDU's blessing.

Feel free to disagree, but you know I'm right.

[edit] Oh, and before anyone gets haughty, I know why the renown for reaching the patrol grid was removed. But I still think that it was a reasonable feature to keep, or at least leave as optional. It saves having to edit the config files.

btw, does anyone remember how much renown was given in stock shiii for reaching and patrolling your assigned grid? I've forgotten.

Check the stock install files. . . oh, wait, my bad, those got overwritten with the non JSGME GWX install. Can't do that. Sorry.

Jimbuna · 04-23-08, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the.terrabyte.pirate

See, I always liked the fact that you earned renown for not only sinking ships, but also for reaching and patrolling your assigned grid.

I figured that although sinking ships was the primary objective, and a good tonnage patrol would forgive almost any sin, a captain that constantly disobeyed orders and went waltzing through the atlantic at a whim looking for ships to sink would not be rewarded in the long term.

From what I understand, the German armed forces tended to be... disciplined.

I'd like to have the patrol grid renown returned. It's a simulator after all, and that includes simulating following orders from your commanders. The way I figure is that even if you're sailing at 100% realism, manual targetting and all, unless you're travelling to, reaching, and patrolling your assigned grid for 24 hours, then you're not truly simulating a uboat patrol. You can always go tonnage hunting afterwards with BDU's blessing.

Feel free to disagree, but you know I'm right.

[edit] Oh, and before anyone gets haughty, I know why the renown for reaching the patrol grid was removed. But I still think that it was a reasonable feature to keep, or at least leave as optional. It saves having to edit the config files.

btw, does anyone remember how much renown was given in stock shiii for reaching and patrolling your assigned grid? I've forgotten.

Reaching patrolgrid = 500
Patroling patrolgrid for 24 hours = 200
Docking at home port = 100

All removed in GWX2.1 I'm afraid....the home port renown has never worked anyway...stock bug

the.terrabyte.pirate · 04-23-08, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Reaching patrolgrid = 500
Patroling patrolgrid for 24 hours = 200
Docking at home port = 100

All removed in GWX2.1 I'm afraid....the home port renown has never worked anyway...stock bug

Thanks for that.

Jimbuna · 04-23-08, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the.terrabyte.pirate

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Reaching patrolgrid = 500
Patroling patrolgrid for 24 hours = 200
Docking at home port = 100

All removed in GWX2.1 I'm afraid....the home port renown has never worked anyway...stock bug

Thanks for that.

Your welcome sir

Tessa · 04-23-08, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Reaching patrolgrid = 500
Patroling patrolgrid for 24 hours = 200
Docking at home port = 100

All removed in GWX2.1 I'm afraid....the home port renown has never worked anyway...stock bug

Didn't realize the home docking was a bug, kind of negates the need to go back to home base say if you're operating off North America and using the supply boat as your base, doesn't give much incentive.

After leaving Scapa after a moderately successful raid managed to hit a mine square in my disel compartment. After listening to my CE whining about," We're taking water sir..." I was ready to shoot the guy (though did dismiss him when we got back to port

), finally fixed all leaks and pumped all the water out. Only had 1 battery left which was severly drained and both disels destroyed. I radio'd in several times my status hoping I'd get some message that an escort was on the way to town me away. Waiting but no acknowledgement at all, so decided to opt for the exit patrol and see what happened. I ended up back in port, no major loss of renown, demotions or anything. Guess a beefier type IX came to tow me to a safe distance where I could get hitched up properly with a tugboat and escort :hmm:

Schwuppes · 04-24-08, 12:50 AM

What I did is I just edited the renown for all the equipment in the basic.cfg so that it will cost me nothing.

I am a very experienced and successful Kapitänleutnant, BdU knows this... too bad SH3 doesnt. :rotfl:

gord96 · 04-24-08, 01:02 AM

so let me get this straight. no more renown for patrol grids?? i must have missed the memo.

Jimbuna · 04-24-08, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gord96

so let me get this straight. no more renown for patrol grids?? i must have missed the memo.

That's about it...no more renown for patrol grids

the.terrabyte.pirate · 04-24-08, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gord96

so let me get this straight. no more renown for patrol grids?? i must have missed the memo.

No more renown for patrol grids if you're playing with any of the GWX mods. Just clarifying. In stock shiii, you still get the renown.

I think it's mentioned about 3 times in the gwx manual... you did read manual right? After all, the GWX team went to a lot of trouble to write it... and you don't want to see grown modders cry now, do you?

Sailor Steve · 04-24-08, 08:08 AM

Or just go into Basic.cfg and change it. No need to even complain.

gord96 · 04-24-08, 08:45 AM

no complaints. just wondering. its actually kinda nice to just go hunt where you want without worry about patroling a certain grid for 24 hours. :hmm:

Sailor Steve · 04-24-08, 09:53 AM

Very true. On the other hand, a good little sailor like me goes to his patrol grid and stays there until he is out of fuel or torpedoes.

On an unrelated note, does anyone have any idea why I have so many empty patrols?
:rotfl:

04-23-08, 07:05 AM	#18
the.terrabyte.pirate Navy Dude Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 176 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	See, I always liked the fact that you earned renown for not only sinking ships, but also for reaching and patrolling your assigned grid. I figured that although sinking ships was the primary objective, and a good tonnage patrol would forgive almost any sin, a captain that constantly disobeyed orders and went waltzing through the atlantic at a whim looking for ships to sink would not be rewarded in the long term. From what I understand, the German armed forces tended to be... disciplined. I'd like to have the patrol grid renown returned. It's a simulator after all, and that includes simulating following orders from your commanders. The way I figure is that even if you're sailing at 100% realism, manual targetting and all, unless you're travelling to, reaching, and patrolling your assigned grid for 24 hours, then you're not truly simulating a uboat patrol. You can always go tonnage hunting afterwards with BDU's blessing. Feel free to disagree, but you know I'm right. [edit] Oh, and before anyone gets haughty, I know why the renown for reaching the patrol grid was removed. But I still think that it was a reasonable feature to keep, or at least leave as optional. It saves having to edit the config files. btw, does anyone remember how much renown was given in stock shiii for reaching and patrolling your assigned grid? I've forgotten. __________________ A kings ransom, or a stove boat. Last edited by the.terrabyte.pirate; 04-23-08 at 08:50 AM.

04-24-08, 12:50 AM	#24
Schwuppes 中国水兵 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 279 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	What I did is I just edited the renown for all the equipment in the basic.cfg so that it will cost me nothing. I am a very experienced and successful Kapitänleutnant, BdU knows this... too bad SH3 doesnt. :rotfl: __________________ E8400 @ 4.00Ghz standard vCore, Gigabyte P35C DS3R @ 445 Mhz, Leadtek GTX 280, 3 x 1GB Kingston DDR2 800 @ 890Mhz, 250GB +160GB HDD, Terratec DMX 6fire 24/96, Silverstone ST60F 600W, Logitech Z-5500 THX

04-24-08, 08:08 AM	#28
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Or just go into Basic.cfg and change it. No need to even complain. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

04-24-08, 09:53 AM	#30
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Very true. On the other hand, a good little sailor like me goes to his patrol grid and stays there until he is out of fuel or torpedoes. On an unrelated note, does anyone have any idea why I have so many empty patrols? :rotfl: __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

04-22-08, 10:45 PM	#16
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I think anyone whos spent a lenght of time in the military can tell you that the renown system is a pretty good simulation of how the military works, in and of itself. Logistics are what they are, good or bad. Supplies will be limited. Who gets first dibbs on the supplies? Ive often heard the phrase, "It's not who you know, it's who you ....... <AHEM> .. anyway, thats the raw blunt picture. Simple fact of the matter is, not everyone, had access to everything. I think it was probably just as true for the Germans in WW2, as it is for US serviceman in the modern age. Some units just had priority over the others, simple fact. A unit i was in once, was considered a priority unit. What the unit commander asked for, he got. Why? Mission presidence, and simply put, our unit was Renown for being hard chargers. We went it, kicked ass, got the job done, and everybody knew it. WIthout exaggeration, Town patrol on more then a couple occasions cut me some slack, simply because of what unit i was in. Again... RENOWN. Then theres the ugly truth, of the "good ole boy system". If supplies are limited, the personal in charge of supplies, arent going to let loose the choice bits to just anybody. You may have to do them a favor or he may have to owe you a favor before they remember, "oh yeah, we got one of those". Again, renown (or "Brownie points" as it's sometimes called ) Or in the case of some units, if they have a reputation, what they ask for, they get. Even if they have to haul it in special delivery. If the unit didnt have the clout to pull those strings, they woudln't get the item in question. (somebody else would )

04-22-08, 11:35 PM	#17
Tessa Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: CG 96 Posts: 861 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Some good points there, made me think of another aspect that factored largely in your ability to get what you want/need - Heroism & Propoganda. In all branches, soldiers that were experts at what they did (like Prien, Kretschmer, Rommel, Erich Hartmann (Luftwaffe, 355 kills)) had their exploits and heroic actions broadcast throughout Germany. Besides being an exceptional military soldier, they were an asset to the country as a symbol of the glory of the Fatherland as well as being great military leaders. Had Prien, Kretschmer or Shubert remained in the Kriegsmarine for the duration of the war I doubt they'd of had little problems getting a VIIC/41 almost right out of the shipyard as it was completed, or been chosen to be commanders for the first XXI boats. As the game can't objectively evaluate your patrol, the renown system was pretty well thought out as both the measure of your rank, commendations, and ability to purchase new equip as soon as it became available.

04-24-08, 01:02 AM	#25
gord96 Commodore Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 627 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	so let me get this straight. no more renown for patrol grids?? i must have missed the memo.

04-24-08, 08:45 AM	#29
gord96 Commodore Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 627 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	no complaints. just wondering. its actually kinda nice to just go hunt where you want without worry about patroling a certain grid for 24 hours. :hmm: