Is Hillary Mentally Ill?

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by fatty

Liberal founding fathers of America are rolling in their graves just a little bit more.

The founding fathers of America were certainly not liberal using todays definition of the word. They would be better described by todays non-interventionist, small government, libertarians at best. Nearly everything todays government loving liberal wants is anathema to the founding principles of the USA. Todays liberal Democrat spits on every founding principle outlined in the constitution, in particular economic freedoms, limited government, personal responsibility/self determination, and the acknowledgement that civil liberties are God granted inalienable rights that require a sense of morality and justness. The Founding Fathers of the USA would be utterly dismayed by the state of politics in America, but would be more inclined to see the side that believes in the above principles as more true to the core of the founding of America. That would be the conservative point of view. The Founders would be disgusted by liberal Democrats for much of what they advocate. And the list is long. By their own standards of how they handled "Benedict Arnolds" in those days / treachery against our military during a time of war, I'm sure those founders would advocate quartering or hanging many of todays liberals.

[NEON DEON]

The problem with extremism from the left or right is that the people who support these views are so blinded by their extremism that they see nothing else.

They will seek to vindicate themselves by grasping at information supporting their point of view while ignoring the source.

The far left will call anyone who disagrees with them right wing whack jobs just as the far right will label their dissenters communists.
Niether group is a friend of the Constitution yet both groups will lay sole claim as its protector.

The far right will constantly miss the point that in order for a democracy to be great the goverment must actively seek to protect the minority from the majority.

The far left in turn will over regulate the economy to the point they strangle free enterprise.

The far right and far left will fail to see the presidential oath of office for what is,
" to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" until, that is, they have changed the document to fit their own agendas.



Anyways, thats me story and I am stickin to it.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

The founding fathers of America were certainly not liberal using todays definition of the word.

What are you talking about, 'today's definition?' Liberal and conservative are relative terms, not absolutes. Conservatives preserve the status quo, liberals advance it (or degrade it, depending on your perspectives.) A liberal in America is not the same as a liberal in Russia is not the same as a liberal in China. It slides also on the dimension of time: relative to the late 18th century, they were very much liberals. Advocating for...

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

...economic freedoms, limited government, personal responsibility/self determination, and the acknowledgement that civil liberties are God granted inalienable rights that require a sense of morality and justness.

...are all very liberal positions to take, relative to the time period. A revolt against the king was no doubt a huge slap in the face of their conservative contemporaries! Without their liberal stances, the USA might still be a British colony. Without any liberals, we might still be stuck in the feudal age. Truth is, you need liberals and conservatives both. Liberals get it right a lot of the time (as they did with the constitution or free market economy and anti-mercantilism) but you need conservatives to apply the brakes and make sure they don't take things too fast or over the top. I could not live in a country without a right to the left or a left to the right. You must also be careful not to confuse Democrat problems like bloated government or tax hikes as 'liberal' postures. It's hard sometimes to seperate out the dumb-assed vote pandering from what is actually 'liberal.' Possibly, as many here seem to argue that there hasn't been a true 'conservative' prez since Reagan, that neither has there been a seriously 'liberal' prez since... well, I don't know, maybe Truman? I don't know enough about presidential histories to make the call.

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

The Founding Fathers of the USA would be utterly dismayed by the state of politics in America, but would be more inclined to see the side that believes in the above principles as more true to the core of the founding of America. That would be the conservative point of view. The Founders would be disgusted by liberal Democrats for much of what they advocate. And the list is long. By their own standards of how they handled "Benedict Arnolds" in those days / treachery against our military during a time of war, I'm sure those founders would advocate quartering or hanging many of todays liberals.

Just as I'm sure they would advocate the quartering or hanging of many of yesterday's conservatives; the grandfather of conservatism, Edmund Burke, was a huge advocate of a strong monarchy and chided the French Revolution at length. If you disagree with his perspective that makes you even just the teeniest tiniest bit of a liberal

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by fatty

What are you talking about, 'today's definition?' Liberal and conservative are relative terms, not absolutes. Conservatives preserve the status quo, liberals advance it (or degrade it, depending on your perspectives.) A liberal in America is not the same as a liberal in Russia is not the same as a liberal in China. It slides also on the dimension of time: relative to the late 18th century, they were very much liberals. Advocating for...

Well, it's pretty apparent I'm talking about todays American Liberal, who happens to reside mostly in the Democrat Party. Yes, there are a few who reside in the Republican party unfortunately. That is the only relevance I see that fits in regards to politics in America. And no, the Founding Fathers were nothing like them in anyway. Therefore, they are not spinning in their proverbial graves (as you asserted) when saying these American liberals show signs of mental illness. Todays American liberal Democrats have nothing in common with the Founders of my country in any way, shape, or form.

...are all very liberal positions to take, relative to the time period. A revolt against the king was no doubt a huge slap in the face of their conservative contemporaries! Without their liberal stances, the USA might still be a British colony. Without any liberals, we might still be stuck in the feudal age. Truth is, you need liberals and conservatives both. Liberals get it right a lot of the time (as they did with the constitution or free market economy and anti-mercantilism) but you need conservatives to apply the brakes and make sure they don't take things too fast or over the top. I could not live in a country without a right to the left or a left to the right. You must also be careful not to confuse Democrat problems like bloated government or tax hikes as 'liberal' postures. It's hard sometimes to seperate out the dumb-assed vote pandering from what is actually 'liberal.' Possibly, as many here seem to argue that there hasn't been a true 'conservative' prez since Reagan, that neither has there been a seriously 'liberal' prez since... well, I don't know, maybe Truman? I don't know enough about presidential histories to make the call.

Yes, definitions have changed. Today's leftist liberal is not the same people you speak of at all. I think we both understand that. Perhaps you were equating the 18th century liberal term to our Founding Fathers, instead of today's meaning. If the Founders knew that todays leftists hijacked the term "liberal" as they have done, I don't think the Founders would ever call themselves liberal. It's unfortunate that American Democrats, who are better labeled as big government socialists, have hijacked terms such as "liberal" and "progressive" to push an agenda that is regressive in nature, and devalues the principles of America's founding. In todays world, it is the conservative who values economic liberty, small/limited government, personal responsibility, individual excellence, and the acknowledgement that our civil rights are God granted and inalienable. Today's liberal spits on the above, for the most part and believes government is the answer to most problems. (ie. people are too dumb to be responsible for their own lives, therefore unable to assume responsibility for the actions of ones own decisions). They advocate government corrections of individual outcomes, and confiscations of private individual property to right suspected wrongs. The Founders of the USA did not intend what todays leftists want.

Just as I'm sure they would advocate the quartering or hanging of many of yesterday's conservatives; the grandfather of conservatism, Edmund Burke, was a huge advocate of a strong monarchy and chided the French Revolution at length. If you disagree with his perspective that makes you even just the teeniest tiniest bit of a liberal

Nope. Disagreeing with that would not make anybody liberal in the modern sense. Just because you would oppose a strong monarchy does not turn you into a big government leftist ala modern day politics in any way at all. Perhaps Burke would see things alot differently with the late 20th-21st century perspective, and all that's happened after his time.

[JetSnake]

Originally Posted by fatty

Liberal founding fathers of America are rolling in their graves just a little bit more.

Is that what your revised history books teach about the founding fathers of America?