Best security system of 2008 award goes to - a tatoo parlor!

[STEED]

Just to let some of you know my previous post was me being sarcastic.

Those of us in the UK who can still smell a rat know full well the government of the day will fiddle the figures bend them twist them inside out and do what ever it takes to put the government in a good light of day.

Just a side note here, our inflation is low according to the government so how is it the cost of eggs has risen 40% in the last six months?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

My problem?

Well your assertion that gun crime is 'skyrocketing' for a start.

Actually gun related crimes have fallen.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6960431.stm

59 people shot in the UK last year, which is literally 1 in a million, probably less actually.

That is because the statistics changed. Read how the cops changed the way things are reported. I can help you find an article on it you want. STEED posted one here at one point.

But i must commend you. You finially found something on the subject we are talking about instead of just giving an opnion. So lets lay it all out on the table and then we can have a discussion about it. We (I mean the subsim population in general) used to be great with discussions at subsim at one point, but lately, it feels like just a bunch of mud slinging.

Anyway, in response to that, I would like to commend the British people! Even when they had guns - no one ever shot anyone - it sounds like they are incredibly hospitable! I quote an article here:

The illusion that the English government had protected its citizens by disarming them seemed credible because few realized the country had an astonishingly low level of armed crime even before guns were restricted. A government study for the years 1890-92, for example, found only three handgun homicides, an average of one a year, in a population of 30 million. In 1904 there were only four armed robberies in London, then the largest city in the world. A hundred years and many gun laws later, the BBC reported that England's firearms restrictions "seem to have had little impact in the criminal underworld." Guns are virtually outlawed, and, as the old slogan predicted, only outlaws have guns. Worse, they are increasingly ready to use them.

That is incredibly low!

Anyway, guns have become a fasion statement for teeagers now. I quote:

Youth workers estimate that as many as 80 per cent of youngsters from tough inner-city areas are involved in gangs. Three fifths of those have guns.

Article here - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...on-507023.html

2003 marks the first year a killing occured with an AK-47 in Hoddesdon:

http://www.ladlass.com/intel/archives/010018.html

What do you guys think about this? I like their ignorance on the subject - kill anyone 800 meters away! Hahahaha! The 7.62x39 round would have dropped out of the sky long before then. Maybe they think if you slipped and fell on it? This would be a lucky shot with even a 5.56 rd and even implausable then! Typical media.

Anyway, I wish you and your British counterparts were armed once more. Reading this stuff makes me shiver at how vulnerable you guys are becoming.

-S

[STEED]

There goes the neighborhood.

[STEED]

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-v...ime/gun-crime/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6960431.stm

[Letum]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Start at your after hours - this is your first clue. Where there are drugs, pretty much anything else is close by. And please - no more stupid responses.

-S

I asuure you I am 100% serious. Arwe you backing out?
Why do you think this is stupid?

Drugs? I know someonme who smokes a little weed, but I doubt she will know where
I can find a gun, but I will ask her anyway.

If this was America I could have probuble got one by now.
If you have any more tips, advixe or instructions go ahead.

[Trex]

Originally Posted by STEED

There goes the neighborhood.

Damn! Just when Van Diemen's Land is getting full, too!

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Letum

I asuure you I am 100% serious. Arwe you backing out?
Why do you think this is stupid?

Drugs? I know someonme who smokes a little weed, but I doubt she will know where
I can find a gun, but I will ask her anyway.

If this was America I could have probuble got one by now.
If you have any more tips, advixe or instructions go ahead.

Not to beat you up too much, but I just told you how. Same way for the US. Find one illegal activity, and you will find the rest. Drugs is the easiest to find, since a dealer who trusts, is a dealer that know someone who knows someone. If the UK teenagers in the previous article I posted can do it with greater than 60% success rate, and these may be the only ones who can come up with the cash, where the rest still know where to find it, then I'm sure you can too.

I've abandoned some friends who got hooked on drugs, and I've seen 10+ years ago on how one could find whatever they want to find. Have money, will travel as the saying goes. Nothing you can say to a druggie will ever get them off of what it is they think brings them attention. I swear its a poor me attitude. But if I had the money and the will, and he could make a buck off the top, anything is mine.

Maybe you haven't seen this underworld in front of your nose, but I have. I didn't like what I saw being young and naive, in fear for what I thought was a friend. In the end, I call it an education however and never was I tempted, resulting in a stronger me. Today, he doesn't even know where I live since I don't trust him, though he can find me via messenger occasionally. He chose his lifestyle, and I got married resulting in a split forever as far as I can see. That was over 10 years ago.

You might say I'm hardened in some ways. And you might say I think many of you are so naive, it hurts, and you would be right.

-S

[Letum]

Well, I would honestly not know where to start, but I will ask my pot-somkeing friend
and if I get stuck I will come back to ask you.

Good thing I don't need to murder any one in a hurry.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Letum

Well, I would honestly not know where to start, but I will ask my pot-somkeing friend
and if I get stuck I will come back to ask you.

Good thing I don't need to murder any one in a hurry.

Don't ask the wrong question.... Questions can wind you up in a heap of trouble.

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by Letum

oh for the days of heads on sticks round the city walls eh?

I would rather not conduct life at knife point.

Oh Yago I do so love how your devious little mind works.....:rotfl:

[Letum]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Don't ask the wrong question.... Questions can wind you up in a heap of trouble.

No "wrong questions"?
You think i might get in trubble? With the police? with Criminals?

Yeesh! Getting hold of a gun in the UK just gets harder and harder!

Im gonna risk a few questions tho, I wouldn't want to forgo my hypothetical killing
spree because I can't ger hold of a gun in time.

[caspofungin]

There does not seem to be any verifiable correlation between gun crimes and the absence or presence of gun control laws. There are places without gun control that are very peaceful and there are places with stiff gun laws where the violent crime rate is through the roof. The crime rate would seem to ultimately be more a societal thing. Some societies seem to be inherently more violent than others. And therein lies the catch...

Too many people get wrapped around the axle over guns, thinking that they are the problem. Ultimately however, the issue is crime, not guns (or at least it should be). We need to stop treating the symptoms and go after the disease.

Trex, well said.

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

That is because the statistics changed. Read how the cops changed the way things are reported. I can help you find an article on it you want. STEED posted one here at one point.

Yes they did change the way crimes were recorded but on the contrary it has actually given crime stats the appearance that more crimes were being committed as they included crimes previously deemed too minor to be included plus alleged crimes are now taken into consideration as a measure of peoples experiance of crime.

Unless you can provide figures which refute mine, and indicate that gun crime has actually increased in the period where mine has shown a decrease then I think its case closed.

Another point is that crime statistics now include more minor violent crimes which were previously not considered significant enough to be added to statistics. This in part accounts for the percieved rise in violent crime; a minor confrontation outside a pub ends up in the violent crime figures, where previously it might have been disregarded. In fact I would argue that a major source of violent crime, that inflates the igures, is due to alcohol fuelled fights in town centres at the weekend.

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page94.asp

But i must commend you. You finially found something on the subject we are talking about instead of just giving an opnion.

Why Thankyou Subman

Anyway, in response to that, I would like to commend the British people! Even when they had guns - no one ever shot anyone - it sounds like they are incredibly hospitable! I quote an article here:

That is incredibly low!

Come on Subman that hardly proves anything and is more than a little spurious. Britain has changed dramaticaly since the late 19th century to compare a study from the 1890s to today and then conclude that it shows that gun restrictions have caused a rise in violent crime is quite bit of a logic leap and pretty much ignores any other factors. There are any number of problems with this, for example what was the number of firearms in public posessition at this time? Quite possibly the low number of gun crimes was due to there being few guns around. Also the collecting of stats was most probably not as good as it is now, infact did the police amass crime figures at all? Quite often police incompetance at the time led them to pass off many murders as 'suicides'.

The two strictest series of gun control laws came after two notorious massacres. The Hungerford massacre was one of the primary factors in the banning of self loading rifles in the UK and the Dunblane massacre caused the ban of the ownership of handguns. These restrictions were both passed by conservative governments. Whether you agree with them or not they have both largely removed the threat of 'spree' style killings in the UK involving firearms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre

As a matter of fact I didn't agree with the laws passed after Dunblane. They would penalise law abiding people who liked to shoot pistols as a hobby and probably would have minimal impact on illegal arms and may even increase the numbers of illegal arms available. Thats not to say that I didn't think that stricter controls needed to be placed on the ownership of such weapons though.

Anyway, guns have become a fasion statement for teeagers now. I quote:

Article here - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...on-507023.html

In some deprived inner city areas where there is trouble with gang culture, some young people see the ownership of a gun as a mark of respect and status. But don't mistake a relatively small minority of teenagers in inner city areas as a general indicator of teenagers within the UK as a whole. Gun crime is largely concentrated in certain innercity areas and is mostly resticted to gang turf wars or involves gang members.

2003 marks the first year a killing occured with an AK-47 in Hoddesdon:

http://www.ladlass.com/intel/archives/010018.html

AK-47's are hardly a commom occurance on British streets. More common are reactivated pistols or converted blank firers. But really its not too bad when you consider that the country has been stripped bare of assault rifles since 1987.

Anyway, I wish you and your British counterparts were armed once more. Reading this stuff makes me shiver at how vulnerable you guys are becoming.

Oh don't worry about us in little old England, we'll muddle through as always.

But something to consider is not how many gun crimes we have now but how many we would have if there was widespread ownership of firearms like in the US.

I would hazzard a guess that its far easier for ciminals to get hold of firearms in the US than it is in the UK. Infact most illegal firearms in the US were originally from legal sources. In effect the legitimate arms trade in the US supplies the illegitimate.
So actually I'm glad that the UK isn't 'armed'.

I shiver at some of the people who would have access to guns if we had 2nd amendment style laws in the UK.

Also before you mention defending homes etc (incidently it is not true that burglars have more rights than home owners in cases of home invasion in the UK its just that there is no automatic right to the use of leathal force) have you thought that an armed public makes it more likely that criminals will carry guns, effectively escalating the situation rather than countering it?

http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnew...afficking.html