Anyone else ever feel guilty? - Page 2

Jonathan · 01-12-08, 10:14 PM

I am remebering the line in Das Boot when the 'boot rises to the surface to survey the damage that they had cuased only to see the flame-licked survivors escape into the ocean in hopes of reaching the sub for help. The 'boot's captain and their crew were forced to pull away from the wreck...much to their dismay, because their was nothing that they could do for the stricken crew.

War sucks for both sides sometimes.

Hartmann · 01-12-08, 10:33 PM

Not really, only sometimes i think about this but i hope that they will have lifeboats to survive, but in rough waters and in the middle of the atlantic...

Some time i killed with three torpedoes more soldiers at once than using several panzers and artillery in the battleground.

In the mediterranean i´ve found two troop ships scorted by a scort, after i sunk the destroyer and damaged every troop ship with one torpedo , i surfaced and started firing with my 105 mm gun.

imagine the scene... the ships burning in flames, sinking, the lifeboats in the water( i supose it ), the shells exploding in the crowded decks, my 20 mm and 37 AA guns firing at will,

After some minutes the troop ships sunk in the middle of a huge cloud of smoke and fire.

i killed a lot of people but i´m not a murderer.

Jonathan · 01-12-08, 10:41 PM

Us Kaleuns have to sleep at night. So i say whatever I need to.

yamato9 · 01-13-08, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomcatMVD

I feel quite bad about the merchies' cew, having some lifeboats fleeing away form the sinking ship would be nice... it would help that tiny bit of humanity some of us have, anyways... I gues they deserve it for playing on the wrong team

Regarding DD's or BB's crews, after I read a couple of U-boats sinking reports, and how they would shoot with sidearms at anyone trying to get out of the sub, yeah, they pretty much deserve my merciless hunting.

OK, i´m not british guy but seeing in some mods how sailors blow up in the air, well maybe this is interesting but also in some aspect of the game is also coold blooded or cruel. Some lifeboats near sinking ship will be realy helpfull.

I´v newer installed mod with DOLPHINS in my game just because same reason.

IN REAL LIFE: Watch on animals,trees and plants, they are true treasure of the world.

Abd_von_Mumit · 01-13-08, 12:27 AM

Hey, this game is not about saving dolphins or people, it's about sinking ships and being sunk. In fact, U-Boots' work was to cause ecological disaster on a huge scale - all this oil, acid, and other crap from sunk ships, sound of blasts that deafened and killed sea animals... But that's the way of war, when man fights he doesn't care a lot.

Care for people and nature in real life, as it's important. But do not moralize too much in game, thus making it unrealistic. I'd like to see the crews sinking, as it would greatly add immersion. I'd also like to see lifeboats for much the same reason. I'd like to have a possibility to choose whether to shoot them in the water or supply with food and escort to the shore, as it would add realism too. There are thousands of games where you shoot people, mass murder them, burn, bomb, gas, tie, beat and so on - why shouldn't we kill the crews then? The U-Boots we are all here for did it on a mass scale. :hmm:

Jonathan · 01-13-08, 01:11 AM

I did a poll about 3 weeks ago, and almost everyone said that if there were life boats in the game, that they would let them live and not blow them out of the water if they had the chance to do so. I would not mind seeing lifeboats....it would be kind of sad and cool all at the same time.

I wonder what would happen to them if you just let them sit there and wait for the rescue ship to show up. :hmm:

yamato9 · 01-13-08, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

Hey, this game is not about saving dolphins or people, it's about sinking ships and being sunk. In fact, U-Boots' work was to cause ecological disaster on a huge scale - all this oil, acid, and other crap from sunk ships, sound of blasts that deafened and killed sea animals... But that's the way of war, when man fights he doesn't care a lot.

Care for people and nature in real life, as it's important. But do not moralize too much in game, thus making it unrealistic. I'd like to see the crews sinking, as it would greatly add immersion. I'd also like to see lifeboats for much the same reason. I'd like to have a possibility to choose whether to shoot them in the water or supply with food and escort to the shore, as it would add realism too. There are thousands of games where you shoot people, mass murder them, burn, bomb, gas, tie, beat and so on - why shouldn't we kill the crews then? The U-Boots we are all here for did it on a mass scale. :hmm:

Yes i just a game at the end, more real life options enabled in game is lead to more realistic game(i´m a heavy supporter for tough realism in game), when i see what child games(like Red Alert and similar) people play...well this is totaly unexeptable level of UNREALISM for me.

About SUBS(echological disaster) well this is my drawback, i allways liked something destructive, while other boys liked cars and similar(you know..look ouu man how this Ferrari loks good) i on other hand always liked tanks,subs,ships(Military), aircrafts. But in my gameing expirience i try to avoid unnecessery victims or polution(this is more or less my play style, but when i encounter some good tanker filled with oil.....normaly i will blast him to skyhigh).

About my DOLPHINS: this is only small urelated(with this thread) message how people should behave in world today(we are very good in killing and destroying for GLORY, PROSPERITY and MODERN CIVILIZATION), when you live to see war in your country(war in Croatia) and when you see how people treating to each other(what they capable to doo each other) and when you see what we doing globaly to our Earth, well.....sometimes just sometimes ask youself...what a freaking thing we doing here, we mus go easy from time to time.

But at the end SH3 is just a game, one great game, so i wish you good BRTonnage rating in next patrol.

Stealth Hunter · 01-13-08, 02:08 AM

I machine-gun lifeboats... in both SH3 (with the mod) and SH4... should I feel bad...?

yamato9 · 01-13-08, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

I machine-gun lifeboats... in both SH3 (with the mod) and SH4... should I feel bad...?

Hmm...like i said before i personaly avoid unnecesary victims but this is only a game, one goooood game, so Stealth Hunter enjoy in sub rampage.

Stealth Hunter · 01-13-08, 02:25 AM

Awesome.

However, if it was real war, and I did have the victims in my sights, I'd still probably kill them out of mercy and for the benefit of the country I was fighting for.

Sniper_Fox · 01-13-08, 02:30 AM

everytime one of my gunners takes out a spitfire, i feel real guilty, cause my gramps was an ace on the brits... he was a spitfire pilot... thats also why i cant play as germans in combat flight simulator 3!

yamato9 · 01-13-08, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper_Fox

everytime one of my gunners takes out a spitfire, i feel real guilty, cause my gramps was an ace on the brits... he was a spitfire pilot... thats also why i cant play as germans in combat flight simulator 3!

Tottaly understand you Sniper Fox, i also got similar expirience in T72 Balkans on Fire, i cant play this game because this game recreates war in my country 1991-1995. (My old man was fought in this war, i cant play agains my people) So i throw this game in thrash.

Stealth Hunter · 01-13-08, 05:16 AM

I'm a veteran of the Iran-Iraq War, and I served in it for 6 years (actual combat, not a desk job or anything of that sort). The only game I ever had a problem with was KUMA in their scenario against Iran. That brought back a couple of memories that I don't feel like sharing and really upset me.

TomcatMVD · 01-13-08, 09:07 AM

This disscusion reminds me of that scene from "Rescuing private Ryan", when they let a German gunner go away, out of mercy, and in the end, you see him shooting the hell out of the allies and killing the movie's hero.
And there's also this video (on the other hand), on silenthunteriii.com, where a WWII Kaleun would talk about how he met a guy that was sailing on the Malaya, which he had torpedoed and severely damaged, making her loose part of the crew; and the sailor said something like he would thank the sub commander that attacked his ship, because of the shore time that granted them, and when the German said "Well, you have him in front of you", they both had a good laugh and kept talking about war.
So yes... war is a cruel thing, but some men are able to distinguish between duty, and plain slaughter. And some even are able to notice when "duty" becomes something against his human nature.
It is a game... but the good immersion factor makes you wonder how a real Kaleun would feel about it, and it makes you be grateful for not to have to do it IRL.

Hanomag · 01-13-08, 10:18 AM

Kaluens,

The bottomline is.. your job as a soldier or sailor at war, is to destroy the enemies of your country in order to win the conflict. Each individual you allow to live is another cog in the enemies war machine.

As a US Army Paratrooper (1/508th Lt Abn) I found that a "no friendlies" attitude worked just fine. If you train for 3 years to kill and cant do it, you are in the wrong line of work. Some folks can live with their dirty work.. others cant.

Im sure it was the same with the Kaluens in WW2. If you have a full blown goose stepping fanatic, Im sure he wasnt loosing much sleep about how many sailors lungs he filled with salt water. And at the other end of the spectrum there were probably those who had pangs everytime they heard "torpedo teffer".

Each one of us is different and theres no way of knowing, til you cross that threshold, how you will truly feel.

Til then Kaluens.. "Pick up your hat! Try and look like a sailor!"

PS It was "SAVING Private Ryan"

01-12-08, 10:14 PM	#16
Jonathan 中国水兵 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 285 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I am remebering the line in Das Boot when the 'boot rises to the surface to survey the damage that they had cuased only to see the flame-licked survivors escape into the ocean in hopes of reaching the sub for help. The 'boot's captain and their crew were forced to pull away from the wreck...much to their dismay, because their was nothing that they could do for the stricken crew. War sucks for both sides sometimes. __________________ SHIII Game Manual, In-Game Map, and Quick Reference Chart Can Be Downloaded From This Link: http://hosted.filefront.com/jnazari

01-12-08, 10:33 PM	#17
Hartmann Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona Posts: 1,857 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	Not really, only sometimes i think about this but i hope that they will have lifeboats to survive, but in rough waters and in the middle of the atlantic... Some time i killed with three torpedoes more soldiers at once than using several panzers and artillery in the battleground. In the mediterranean i´ve found two troop ships scorted by a scort, after i sunk the destroyer and damaged every troop ship with one torpedo , i surfaced and started firing with my 105 mm gun. imagine the scene... the ships burning in flames, sinking, the lifeboats in the water( i supose it ), the shells exploding in the crowded decks, my 20 mm and 37 AA guns firing at will, After some minutes the troop ships sunk in the middle of a huge cloud of smoke and fire. i killed a lot of people but i´m not a murderer. __________________ But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor

01-12-08, 10:41 PM	#18
Jonathan 中国水兵 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 285 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Us Kaleuns have to sleep at night. So i say whatever I need to. __________________ SHIII Game Manual, In-Game Map, and Quick Reference Chart Can Be Downloaded From This Link: http://hosted.filefront.com/jnazari

01-13-08, 12:27 AM	#20
Abd_von_Mumit The Old Man Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Warszawa, Polska Posts: 1,453 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 4	Hey, this game is not about saving dolphins or people, it's about sinking ships and being sunk. In fact, U-Boots' work was to cause ecological disaster on a huge scale - all this oil, acid, and other crap from sunk ships, sound of blasts that deafened and killed sea animals... But that's the way of war, when man fights he doesn't care a lot. Care for people and nature in real life, as it's important. But do not moralize too much in game, thus making it unrealistic. I'd like to see the crews sinking, as it would greatly add immersion. I'd also like to see lifeboats for much the same reason. I'd like to have a possibility to choose whether to shoot them in the water or supply with food and escort to the shore, as it would add realism too. There are thousands of games where you shoot people, mass murder them, burn, bomb, gas, tie, beat and so on - why shouldn't we kill the crews then? The U-Boots we are all here for did it on a mass scale. :hmm: __________________ Long, hard, wet and full of seamen. My precious. SH3+GWX+OLC — sunk x4, retired x2; SH5+TDW — still exploring My SH5 mods: EQuaTool - Elite Quality Map Tools, Patrol Routine Scripts, No Logo Intro Menu_Animation, Less Annoying Stopwatch Links: SH5 mods I use, FileFront, Manual plotting how-to

01-13-08, 01:11 AM	#21
Jonathan 中国水兵 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 285 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I did a poll about 3 weeks ago, and almost everyone said that if there were life boats in the game, that they would let them live and not blow them out of the water if they had the chance to do so. I would not mind seeing lifeboats....it would be kind of sad and cool all at the same time. I wonder what would happen to them if you just let them sit there and wait for the rescue ship to show up. :hmm: __________________ SHIII Game Manual, In-Game Map, and Quick Reference Chart Can Be Downloaded From This Link: http://hosted.filefront.com/jnazari

01-13-08, 02:08 AM	#23
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I machine-gun lifeboats... in both SH3 (with the mod) and SH4... should I feel bad...?

01-13-08, 02:25 AM	#25
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Awesome. However, if it was real war, and I did have the victims in my sights, I'd still probably kill them out of mercy and for the benefit of the country I was fighting for.

01-13-08, 02:30 AM	#26
Sniper_Fox Engineer Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: North of Malta, shadowing your pretty little C3 Cargo! Posts: 212 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	everytime one of my gunners takes out a spitfire, i feel real guilty, cause my gramps was an ace on the brits... he was a spitfire pilot... thats also why i cant play as germans in combat flight simulator 3! __________________ Im a one U-boat wolfpack. Ive hit the bottom of the Mediterranian at 250 metres in my VIIC and brought that babe back up, and still made it back to La Spezia. Ive sunk more destroyers than I have merchants...youll wish you never sailed into U-87s hunting grounds. When you pull into port, dont lull yourself into a false sense of security, your mines and subnets are just a petty challenge for my crew and I.

01-13-08, 05:16 AM	#28
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I'm a veteran of the Iran-Iraq War, and I served in it for 6 years (actual combat, not a desk job or anything of that sort). The only game I ever had a problem with was KUMA in their scenario against Iran. That brought back a couple of memories that I don't feel like sharing and really upset me.

01-13-08, 09:07 AM	#29
TomcatMVD Weps Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: MVD, UY Posts: 359 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	This disscusion reminds me of that scene from "Rescuing private Ryan", when they let a German gunner go away, out of mercy, and in the end, you see him shooting the hell out of the allies and killing the movie's hero. And there's also this video (on the other hand), on silenthunteriii.com, where a WWII Kaleun would talk about how he met a guy that was sailing on the Malaya, which he had torpedoed and severely damaged, making her loose part of the crew; and the sailor said something like he would thank the sub commander that attacked his ship, because of the shore time that granted them, and when the German said "Well, you have him in front of you", they both had a good laugh and kept talking about war. So yes... war is a cruel thing, but some men are able to distinguish between duty, and plain slaughter. And some even are able to notice when "duty" becomes something against his human nature. It is a game... but the good immersion factor makes you wonder how a real Kaleun would feel about it, and it makes you be grateful for not to have to do it IRL. __________________

01-13-08, 10:18 AM	#30
Hanomag Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: LI NY Posts: 964 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Kaluens, The bottomline is.. your job as a soldier or sailor at war, is to destroy the enemies of your country in order to win the conflict. Each individual you allow to live is another cog in the enemies war machine. As a US Army Paratrooper (1/508th Lt Abn) I found that a "no friendlies" attitude worked just fine. If you train for 3 years to kill and cant do it, you are in the wrong line of work. Some folks can live with their dirty work.. others cant. Im sure it was the same with the Kaluens in WW2. If you have a full blown goose stepping fanatic, Im sure he wasnt loosing much sleep about how many sailors lungs he filled with salt water. And at the other end of the spectrum there were probably those who had pangs everytime they heard "torpedo teffer". Each one of us is different and theres no way of knowing, til you cross that threshold, how you will truly feel. Til then Kaluens.. "Pick up your hat! Try and look like a sailor!" PS It was "SAVING Private Ryan" __________________ "Only if I can save first..."