Frustrated to tears with CTDs - Page 2

johnno74 · 11-04-07, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baggygreen

Really? I cant burn or anything else other than sometimes surf the web when i play SH3, and when I upped the priority it brought about an immediate improvement. Maybe i'll just put it down to blind luck then i guess.

If you are doing other stuff which is moderately intensive - like burning a dvd while you are playing SH3, then yes, increasing the priority of SH3 WILL help

windows will share your CPU amongst all the apps you have running - but if anything has a priority above the others then that process will get pretty much as much cpu as it wants, and anything that is left will be split amonst the normal priority stuff.

Dual core helps with multitasking, because most apps including SH3 are single-core, so really the most cpu any one single-threaded app can use is 50% - so you have 50% left for other stuff.

What does bug me is people that shut down absolutely everyting in their system so its damn near 100% idle, then start their game at high priority and say they notice a difference.

THE_MASK · 11-04-07, 09:54 PM

This might be a bit controversial but i cured my ctds by flinging the disk out the back door like a frisbee . No problems with SH4 .

floundericiousWA · 11-04-07, 09:55 PM

Wow...you guys should really consider stickying or linking this thread to one of the newbie or the "help!" stickies! Thanks for all the feedback!

I'm going to keep at it with this thing (I just tried rolling back nVIDIA drivers from 163.xx to 91.xx from this past summer...I might just try rolling them back further to the 8x.xx set I've got...that was when they were stable...)

Don't forget, this system was built by [strike]H[/strike]Dell...so it's not necessarily fully compatible with itself

I'll post back again as I experiment with drivers and upgrades...and the occasional un-/re-install... when I figure it out or when I get it working, I'll try to provide a sequence to help others in the future!

Thanks again, gang! Happy Hunting!

...and remember, when the DD's are coming, channel a little captain FLOUNDER

johnno74 · 11-04-07, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sober

This might be a bit controversial but i cured my ctds by flinging the disk out the back door like a frisbee . No problems with SH4 .

Yes I'd say saying SH4 is more stable than SH3 would go down like a cup of cold sick around here. Listen carefully and you might hear scoffing in the distance.

By the time I discovered SH3 patch 1.4 was already out, and I don't know if I've ever had it crash on me.

I've heard SH4 has come a long way though, I hear the devs have nearly finshed it now?

PapaG39 · 11-05-07, 03:24 AM

Several years ago I use to crash to the desktop a lot.
I finely put in a big ol top-o-the-line power supply, and I haven't ctd since...
when I updated my last computer about a year ago I put another top of the line 650 watt power supply... no problems....
It takes power to run all the crap we gamers throw at this hardware...

siber · 11-05-07, 11:49 AM

It sounds crazy, but have you been messing with the power supply fans?

I used to have CTDs occasionally after about the same amount of time, and the only thing that had changed was that I'd moved house(!!!)

Turns out my power supply fan was blowing 'out' rather than sucking air in, thus removing smooth airflow from my case. My graphics card was simply overheating and after about an hour, it would conk out causing a CTD.

My new house (with double glazing!) happens to be warmer than my old one, thus prompting the overheating issue. Make sure your fans all pull in the same direction.

Otherwise, what they ^^^ all said...

floundericiousWA · 11-05-07, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaG39

Several years ago I use to crash to the desktop a lot.
I finely put in a big ol top-o-the-line power supply, and I haven't ctd since...
when I updated my last computer about a year ago I put another top of the line 650 watt power supply... no problems....
It takes power to run all the crap we gamers throw at this hardware...

The owner's guide for mine says it has a 375 watt power supply...does that seem weak?

Chock · 11-05-07, 08:40 PM

Yes, that PSU does seem a bit on the soft side. It may indeed supply enough power to the thing when it's running MS Word or whatever, but the moment you start adding bits and peripherals to your computer, and then taxing the PSU with a 3D application, it could become a weak link in the chain. So it is perfectly possible for the thing to just say 'sod this', and check out on you (either temporarily, or permanently, sometimes you smell burning, sometimes not). I've had both versions of that scenario, and it took me a while to figure it was that when I was having the old blue screen of death. Now I always use heavy duty PSUs, as they have plenty of leeway for adding other bits and pieces, such as network cards and the like without leaving the GPU short on juice.

If you do uprate the PSU (which is easy to do by the way, it's just a few posi screws and a bit of reconnecting wires, but taking a photo of where things go before you disconnect stuff to assist you, is a good idea. Unplug it from the mains too, unless you want to die. Also make sure you have one that has the same plug for the motherboard as your old type, there is more than one sort, so take your old PSU out and compare the main plug on it to the one you are considering buying), then be aware that you may need to add another fan to the case somewhere to assist cooling, there are usually extra unused vent locations on a PC case for this purpose (sometimes you have to remove metal panels that have weakened 'break lines' on them to clear the holes for the vent) and there are also usually a number of pins on the motherboard which you can take power for the fans from, if you haven't got a manual for your motherboard (not unlikely if it is a Dell), do a search on the net for a diagram of your motherboard and it will mark locations or power points for fans. If you need to know what type of motherboard it is, do a search on the net for a little utility called CPU-Z (shareware, or free if you are too cheap to donate LOL), this analyses your system and tells you the spec of all your stuff in your PC.

Chock

Fenris_Wolf · 11-06-07, 03:50 AM

Ok, I have a few suggestions for OP.

- Make sure that all the RAM modules, or sticks, are of the same make, speed and model number, if you have multiple ones.

- Download and run a program called Memtest.exe (freeware). It will run in DOS mode and take an hour or two to thoroughly test the RAM installed in your CPU.

- For troubleshooting use stock SH3 with latest patch only (without GWX or any other addons like the SH4 effects pack by RB or the high resolution dll).

- Try to run the game in Windows 2000 compatibility mode.

- Driver settings (important): Make sure that the features that SH3 does not support are disabled in the global video driver settings, or set to auto if that's not possible.

- Hard disk: There should not be any bad sectors on the hard disk.

- Paging file (virtual memory): Increase paging file size (fixed, not windows managed) to approx. 3-4 GB.

- Old save files (important): Delete older saved files of your current career from the SH3 folder in my documents.

- CPU / video card voltages and temperatures: These must be normal. No overclocking.

- Sound card (important!): Update the sound card drivers, or play the game without sound (if it runs that way) by disabling or removing the sound card (only to see if this piece of hardware is the problem).

- BIOS Settings: Make sure the processor's L1 and L2 cache are enabled and the RAM timings are set to "By SPD" or default. If your video card is AGP interface then select AGP aperture size = 64mb.

flag4 · 11-06-07, 12:06 PM

hi johno74

previous to my now 2.4 engine i ran a 1.8 and sh3 struggled on that, dont know why, cause the other hardware is still the same, ie, graphics card motherboard etc.
this is why i suggested it, cause it happened to me...

flag4

floundericiousWA · 11-06-07, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris_Wolf

Ok, I have a few suggestions for OP.

- Make sure that all the RAM modules, or sticks, are of the same make, speed and model number, if you have multiple ones.

Ok, I was wondering about that...I'll probably bump to 2GB and see how the puter is doing...I CAN upgrade to 4GB...but dont' know that I need to spend that much money (especially if bumping to 2GB does the trick)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris_Wolf

- Download and run a program called Memtest.exe (freeware). It will run in DOS mode and take an hour or two to thoroughly test the RAM installed in your CPU.

I'll try it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris_Wolf

- For troubleshooting use stock SH3 with latest patch only (without GWX or any other addons like the SH4 effects pack by RB or the high resolution dll).

Check!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris_Wolf

- Try to run the game in Windows 2000 compatibility mode.

Huh...ok, i'll try it! Can't hurt!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris_Wolf

- Driver settings (important): Make sure that the features that SH3 does not support are disabled in the global video driver settings, or set to auto if that's not possible.

Can someone point me to these? edit: that is, what features on a modern NVIDIA card are not supported by SH3? recall that it ran fine on stock settings...NVIDIA's control panel DOES have a program specific template for sh3.exe!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris_Wolf

- Hard disk: There should not be any bad sectors on the hard disk.

I defrag regularly...no bad sectors that I've seen on the reports...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris_Wolf

- Paging file (virtual memory): Increase paging file size (fixed, not windows managed) to approx. 3-4 GB.

I'll give that a try...current page file is like 1.4GB or 1.5GB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris_Wolf

- Old save files (important): Delete older saved files of your current career from the SH3 folder in my documents.

Check...every time I try something new, now, this will be a consistent step. Question: Do you guys just DELETE the SH3 folder or go in and snipe the saves?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris_Wolf

- CPU / video card voltages and temperatures: These must be normal. No overclocking.

After running SH3 for a while (or any other 3D game) the NVIDIA temperature readings are still nowhere near 100 deg C (usually around 65-75)...when I put my hand near the frontside vents, I can FEEL the inflow zipping into the computer...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris_Wolf

- Sound card (important!): Update the sound card drivers, or play the game without sound (if it runs that way) by disabling or removing the sound card (only to see if this piece of hardware is the problem).

I've tried updating the sound drivers...but I'll check again... FWIW, I turned off music and still had the problem, but music emulation and digital sound aren't the same I suppose...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris_Wolf

- BIOS Settings: Make sure the processor's L1 and L2 cache are enabled and the RAM timings are set to "By SPD" or default. If your video card is AGP interface then select AGP aperture size = 64mb.

My motherboard is a PCI-Express...I'll take a look at the BIOS (for my system F2 at the splash screen after power on)..actually I'd not thought of that..I flashed my BIOS late spring/early summer..it MAY have reset some of those settings!

(not that I know it'll work, but it shook that loose from the dusty innards of my conn)

You know...thinking about it... my computer, earlier this year, was next to a baseboard heater...some of the wires on the back side got pretty damned hot (I noticed this after a month or two and pulled the computer about 6 inches further away from the heater and rerouted the cables)... that might have damaged something...

Fenris_Wolf · 11-07-07, 01:53 AM

The nvidia global driver settings that have caused problems and given me CTD's on patrol startup include some fancy advanced anti-aliasing settings and one or two other ones. Just do a search of the forums and you should find plenty of tips about the right settings.

As for RAM. My secondary/work computer has 1GB RAM, 2.4 ghz single core hyper-threading proc, nvidia 6800 AGP video card and it used to run SH3 just fine, or even just as good as my new one. Never had any problems. There is a freeware program called Memturbo that you can use to free up memory before firing up SH3 or just to see if there is not enough for SH3.

Your 1.8 processor -should- be able to run the game imo. If I were you I would troubleshoot the problem first and if it turns out that the processor is too slow, I would overclock it

However, I think 65-75 degrees celcius is still a somewhat high temperature for your video card. It should not go above 60-65 imho. An easy and cheap way to add cooling is to take off the CPU cover and put a table fan infront of it

floundericiousWA · 11-07-07, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris_Wolf

The nvidia global driver settings that have caused problems and given me CTD's on patrol startup include some fancy advanced anti-aliasing settings and one or two other ones. Just do a search of the forums and you should find plenty of tips about the right settings.

As for RAM. My secondary/work computer has 1GB RAM, 2.4 ghz single core hyper-threading proc, nvidia 6800 AGP video card and it used to run SH3 just fine, or even just as good as my new one. Never had any problems. There is a freeware program called Memturbo that you can use to free up memory before firing up SH3 or just to see if there is not enough for SH3.

Your 1.8 processor -should- be able to run the game imo. If I were you I would troubleshoot the problem first and if it turns out that the processor is too slow, I would overclock it

However, I think 65-75 degrees celcius is still a somewhat high temperature for your video card. It should not go above 60-65 imho. An easy and cheap way to add cooling is to take off the CPU cover and put a table fan infront of it

EGADS! I think the pagefile increase might have gotten it!

I bumped it from 1.5GB (range of 1.5GB to 1.5GB) to a range of 3GB to 4GB

I just ran a very satisfying patrol up the coast of england, including all the places/things where the game would ctd or get graphical gremlins (ever had the fluorescent yellow graphical error before?

) ...and, while it slowed down a little during 1024x compression a few times, it didn't CTD like it has... fingers crossed!!!

bigboywooly · 11-07-07, 01:23 PM

Good news
Fingers crossed indeed

floundericiousWA · 11-07-07, 02:25 PM

note: I'm STILL planning to upgrade my physical mem from 1 GB to 2GB (I MIGHT get frisky and go for 4GB

)

11-05-07, 11:49 AM	#21
siber Planesman Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Salford, Manchester, UK Posts: 182 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	It sounds crazy, but have you been messing with the power supply fans? I used to have CTDs occasionally after about the same amount of time, and the only thing that had changed was that I'd moved house(!!!) Turns out my power supply fan was blowing 'out' rather than sucking air in, thus removing smooth airflow from my case. My graphics card was simply overheating and after about an hour, it would conk out causing a CTD. My new house (with double glazing!) happens to be warmer than my old one, thus prompting the overheating issue. Make sure your fans all pull in the same direction. Otherwise, what they ^^^ all said... __________________ Using GWX 3.0 at 100% realism, OLC's 'Ubermod' & Torpdamagefinal

11-05-07, 08:40 PM	#23
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yes, that PSU does seem a bit on the soft side. It may indeed supply enough power to the thing when it's running MS Word or whatever, but the moment you start adding bits and peripherals to your computer, and then taxing the PSU with a 3D application, it could become a weak link in the chain. So it is perfectly possible for the thing to just say 'sod this', and check out on you (either temporarily, or permanently, sometimes you smell burning, sometimes not). I've had both versions of that scenario, and it took me a while to figure it was that when I was having the old blue screen of death. Now I always use heavy duty PSUs, as they have plenty of leeway for adding other bits and pieces, such as network cards and the like without leaving the GPU short on juice. If you do uprate the PSU (which is easy to do by the way, it's just a few posi screws and a bit of reconnecting wires, but taking a photo of where things go before you disconnect stuff to assist you, is a good idea. Unplug it from the mains too, unless you want to die. Also make sure you have one that has the same plug for the motherboard as your old type, there is more than one sort, so take your old PSU out and compare the main plug on it to the one you are considering buying), then be aware that you may need to add another fan to the case somewhere to assist cooling, there are usually extra unused vent locations on a PC case for this purpose (sometimes you have to remove metal panels that have weakened 'break lines' on them to clear the holes for the vent) and there are also usually a number of pins on the motherboard which you can take power for the fans from, if you haven't got a manual for your motherboard (not unlikely if it is a Dell), do a search on the net for a diagram of your motherboard and it will mark locations or power points for fans. If you need to know what type of motherboard it is, do a search on the net for a little utility called CPU-Z (shareware, or free if you are too cheap to donate LOL), this analyses your system and tells you the spec of all your stuff in your PC. Chock __________________

11-06-07, 03:50 AM	#24
Fenris_Wolf Sparky Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 155 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Ok, I have a few suggestions for OP. - Make sure that all the RAM modules, or sticks, are of the same make, speed and model number, if you have multiple ones. - Download and run a program called Memtest.exe (freeware). It will run in DOS mode and take an hour or two to thoroughly test the RAM installed in your CPU. - For troubleshooting use stock SH3 with latest patch only (without GWX or any other addons like the SH4 effects pack by RB or the high resolution dll). - Try to run the game in Windows 2000 compatibility mode. - Driver settings (important): Make sure that the features that SH3 does not support are disabled in the global video driver settings, or set to auto if that's not possible. - Hard disk: There should not be any bad sectors on the hard disk. - Paging file (virtual memory): Increase paging file size (fixed, not windows managed) to approx. 3-4 GB. - Old save files (important): Delete older saved files of your current career from the SH3 folder in my documents. - CPU / video card voltages and temperatures: These must be normal. No overclocking. - Sound card (important!): Update the sound card drivers, or play the game without sound (if it runs that way) by disabling or removing the sound card (only to see if this piece of hardware is the problem). - BIOS Settings: Make sure the processor's L1 and L2 cache are enabled and the RAM timings are set to "By SPD" or default. If your video card is AGP interface then select AGP aperture size = 64mb. __________________ NO HOOCHIE WOOCHIE - NO LIFE! Last edited by Fenris_Wolf; 11-06-07 at 04:03 AM.

11-07-07, 01:53 AM	#27
Fenris_Wolf Sparky Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 155 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The nvidia global driver settings that have caused problems and given me CTD's on patrol startup include some fancy advanced anti-aliasing settings and one or two other ones. Just do a search of the forums and you should find plenty of tips about the right settings. As for RAM. My secondary/work computer has 1GB RAM, 2.4 ghz single core hyper-threading proc, nvidia 6800 AGP video card and it used to run SH3 just fine, or even just as good as my new one. Never had any problems. There is a freeware program called Memturbo that you can use to free up memory before firing up SH3 or just to see if there is not enough for SH3. Your 1.8 processor -should- be able to run the game imo. If I were you I would troubleshoot the problem first and if it turns out that the processor is too slow, I would overclock it However, I think 65-75 degrees celcius is still a somewhat high temperature for your video card. It should not go above 60-65 imho. An easy and cheap way to add cooling is to take off the CPU cover and put a table fan infront of it __________________ NO HOOCHIE WOOCHIE - NO LIFE!

11-07-07, 01:23 PM	#29
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Good news Fingers crossed indeed __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

11-04-07, 09:54 PM	#17
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	This might be a bit controversial but i cured my ctds by flinging the disk out the back door like a frisbee . No problems with SH4 .

11-04-07, 09:55 PM	#18
floundericiousWA Medic Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 164 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Wow...you guys should really consider stickying or linking this thread to one of the newbie or the "help!" stickies! Thanks for all the feedback! I'm going to keep at it with this thing (I just tried rolling back nVIDIA drivers from 163.xx to 91.xx from this past summer...I might just try rolling them back further to the 8x.xx set I've got...that was when they were stable...) Don't forget, this system was built by [strike]H[/strike]Dell...so it's not necessarily fully compatible with itself I'll post back again as I experiment with drivers and upgrades...and the occasional un-/re-install... when I figure it out or when I get it working, I'll try to provide a sequence to help others in the future! Thanks again, gang! Happy Hunting! ...and remember, when the DD's are coming, channel a little captain *FLOUNDER*

11-05-07, 03:24 AM	#20
PapaG39 Frogman Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 297 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Several years ago I use to crash to the desktop a lot. I finely put in a big ol top-o-the-line power supply, and I haven't ctd since... when I updated my last computer about a year ago I put another top of the line 650 watt power supply... no problems.... It takes power to run all the crap we gamers throw at this hardware...

11-06-07, 12:06 PM	#25
flag4 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: as far away as possible Posts: 1,625 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 0	hi johno74 previous to my now 2.4 engine i ran a 1.8 and sh3 struggled on that, dont know why, cause the other hardware is still the same, ie, graphics card motherboard etc. this is why i suggested it, cause it happened to me... flag4

11-07-07, 02:25 PM	#30
floundericiousWA Medic Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 164 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	note: I'm STILL planning to upgrade my physical mem from 1 GB to 2GB (I MIGHT get frisky and go for 4GB )