Man tears down Mexican flag

[DeepIron]

Interesting points but I won't debate you on them. I'm tired of the "evil, war-mongering, hateful Americans" schtick...

Suffice to say this, anytime you guys would like to see your National Standard replaced by that of another foreign nation, be my guest...

[baggygreen]

In canberra we have parliament house, funnily enough. courtesy of walter burley griffin's design, the parliamentary circle is a central point for a lovely, well designed city.

One of the roads leading from the south side of the lake towards APH is yarra glen. As You drive along it, you come around a bend, up a slight rise and next thing you see is a couple of km away, the australian flag flying atop APH. Its a glorious view.

The only thing better is driving towards APH from the War Memorial, shown here. I get to drive down Anzac parade to this view every morning on my way to work.

My point is, every time i see these 2 sights, my stomach does a little dance. I dont hold many if any views that we're a superior nation etc., but it certainly tickles my pickle!!!!!

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

We had three flagpoles outside our school. In my 4-5 years of being there, I never saw the Union Jack. We had Uganda, France and Germany, but never Britain.

During the last 2 years of my time at boarding school (ie 6th form) I had a union jack flag in my window which I was asked to take down, by my house master, because a parent had complained that it was 'overly nationalistic'.

It really annoyed me at the time, and gave me a little glimpse of what to expect from the world outside of the school. Nothing has really changed in this respect except for the fact that I'm now a little more pragmatic in my feelings towards such incidents; I'm not going to let something as silly as someone elses narrow point of view bother me to the extent that it detracts from my daily life.

At the end of the day it's just a flag and I'm not going to be swayed in my thought by other peoples ideas and behaviour, if they want to get all p r i c k l y * about it that's their perogative, more power to them, but I'm not going to subsume their attachement to an icon like my national flag.

As Letum mentions, all too often natinoal pride sinks to become something altogether more unplesant.



* damn sweary filtre, what happens if I write s****horpe? :rotfl:s c u n t h o r p e, it's a place in the UK you know :hmm:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

*salutes*

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by jumpy

During the last 2 years of my time at boarding school (ie 6th form) I had a union jack flag in my window which I was asked to take down, by my house master, because a parent had complained that it was 'overly nationalistic'.

It really annoyed me at the time, and gave me a little glimpse of what to expect from the world outside of the school. Nothing has really changed in this respect except for the fact that I'm now a little more pragmatic in my feelings towards such incidents; I'm not going to let something as silly as someone elses narrow point of view bother me to the extent that it detracts from my daily life.

At the end of the day it's just a flag and I'm not going to be swayed in my thought by other peoples ideas and behaviour, if they want to get all p r i c k l y * about it that's their perogative, more power to them, but I'm not going to subsume their attachement to an icon like my national flag.

As Letum mentions, all too often natinoal pride sinks to become something altogether more unplesant.



* damn sweary filtre, what happens if I write s****horpe? :rotfl:s c u n t h o r p e, it's a place in the UK you know :hmm:

What niggles me is, we bought the headteacher one to put up there. I can understand the Uganda one, because our school was linked with a college there, but France? And Germany? Last time I checked this was the United Kingdom, and I'm just as proud of our flag as the Yanks are of theirs.

I bet you that parent who complained about your flag would soon complain more if they saw someone burning it. Nowadays its all "We cant be overly British, it'll offend the Muslims!"

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

I bet you that parent who complained about your flag would soon complain more if they saw someone burning it. Nowadays its all "We cant be overly British, it'll offend the Muslims!"

hehe the irony of the situation was several of the other students had the following flags on prominent display in their windows and nobody said anything:

Japanese Rising sun
Germany
The Soviet Union
Argentina

Can you spot the similarity with what some might consider the 'subtext' to these symbols of national identity?

Hypocrisy is something I became so much more aware of to the extent that I realised that there is not one corner of my life and interaction with others that it does not permeate in one form or another.

I'd bet the shirt off my back that the parent who complained was a white, middle class lefty do gooder. So seeing someone burning the union jack would most likely elicit little response. That was 15 years ago and I don't believe anything has changed for the better in this respect.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

Interesting points but I won't debate you on them. I'm tired of the "evil, war-mongering, hateful Americans" schtick...

Suffice to say this, anytime you guys would like to see your National Standard replaced by that of another foreign nation, be my guest...

Good one! I couldn't say it better myself. Pretty much the only reason ones country even exists is due to patriotism in the first place. Without it, you have nothing more than a congregation of people with no moral fabric to bind them together, waiting for the next barbarian attack looking to take away what little they have left.

I thought in this day in age that we would have figured out what got you to where one is. Seems some people need a history lesson. Very sad. Actually, very very sad.

-S

[bigboywooly]

I have a 10 by 8 St Georges flag flying on a pole in my back garden
Pole is high enough to be seen across all the neighbouring gardens and roads

F**k em
Tis my national flag

Not had any complaints
YET

Was one thing I noticed while in the states - the amount of US flags flying from porches and businesses
Not to mention bumper stickers

Very few of our government buildings fly flags anymore
Shame

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

Interesting points but I won't debate you on them. I'm tired of the "evil, war-mongering, hateful Americans" schtick...

Suffice to say this, anytime you guys would like to see your National Standard replaced by that of another foreign nation, be my guest...

Tearing down some other countries flag is hardly something to concider a patriotic act. Allso waving your own nations flag arround everywhere doesnt make you a patriot, while standing for your country and its ideals does.

[P_Funk]

Have you people seen the Canadian flag? Do you know how silly it looks next to everyone elses? Its a bloody joke nearly!

And I love that flag. Cause it says F U to everyone else. Its the most original flag I've ever seen. Not some ripped off American flag with only 13 stars and a beaver in the middle for good luck. Nope its totally original. Does fill me with pride, and a giggle.

And I don't have an issue with people displaying flags of their ancestry, as long as it isn't an overt jesture of anti-integration. Every day on the way to school I can look out the right window of the bus and see a lovely house on one corner that has a greek flag flying high. But guess what, it has a Canadian one flying just a bit higher too.

Thats how you do it.

As for patriotism, not my cup of congac either. I'm a much bigger fan of nationalism. Patriotism always gave off a submissive ignorant feeling to me.

Even the googled definitions sound correct to me.

Patriotism - Love of and devotion to one's country.

Nationalism - Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.

Way more complex and doesn't imply a deliberate or encouraged ignorance or jingoism. Yes jingoism goes well with patriotism.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

Tearing down some other countries flag is hardly something to concider a patriotic act. Allso waving your own nations flag arround everywhere doesnt make you a patriot, while standing for your country and its ideals does.

It is totally patriotic. The proper way to display a flag on a government building such as a school, which is state run is to have the American flag on top and in the middle. Slightly lower is to have the state flag off on one of the side polls, and the third poll should be used for a visiting dignitary and should be the lowest of the three.

THis shows pride in our country and represents pride. THe fact a Mexican flag is flying above our schools with no American or state flag tells me there is deep problems in that society. Scary.

-S

[DeepIron]

Tearing down some other countries flag is hardly something to concider a patriotic act.

I guess the guys on Iwo Jima were pretty "unpatriotic" by your definition...

Also waving your own nations flag arround everywhere doesnt make you a patriot, while standing for your country and its ideals does.

So, what's the problem? I'm standing by my patriotic ideals by posting my convictions in this forum and I'm close to being condemned for them... I am a patriotic citizen. I stand by my country for what our Founding Fathers believed in and what the Constitution of the United States guarantees. I'm as much a patriot for my country as anyone else is for theirs.

As far as the flag incident is concerned, it boils down to this:
The National Flag of Mexico OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY has NO, repeat NO, reason or right to be flown in this OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY outside of the lawful and prescribed manner as SUBMAN1 points out.

Maybe someone who questions "patriotism" should proudly and unabashedly display a Nazi flag at their home. See how many "patriots" show up on your doorstep...

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

I guess the guys on Iwo Jima were pretty "unpatriotic" by your definition...

Now you are taking things out of context. The soldiers at Iwo Jima were fighting in a war where strong symbols like that are important for morale. They were patriots by the merrit of figthing for their countries defence.

So, what's the problem? I'm standing by my patriotic ideals by posting my convictions in this forum and I'm close to being condemned for them... I am a patriotic citizen. I stand by my country for what our Founding Fathers believed in and what the Constitution of the United States guarantees. I'm as much a patriot for my country as anyone else is for theirs.

I did'nt condemn you. While I dont agree with everything you say I never dondemned you. All i said was that I don't see the tearing down of that flag in that case as being patriotic.

As far as the flag incident is concerned, it boils down to this:
The National Flag of Mexico OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY has NO, repeat NO, reason or right to be flown in this OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY outside of the lawful and prescribed manner as SUBMAN1 points out.

Maybe someone who questions "patriotism" should proudly and unabashedly display a Nazi flag at their home. See how many "patriots" show up on your doorstep...

Thats your opinion. The school I went to had two flags up the poles, both at equal height, our countries flag and the flag of the country our partner school was, Finland in thsi case. I concidered it as sign of respect to have the flags at equal height, but this is again a mater of opinion wether you think the country in question deserves the respect or not.

[DeepIron]

Now you are taking things out of context. The soldiers at Iwo Jima were fighting in a war where strong symbols like that are important for morale. They were patriots by the merrit of figthing for their countries defence.

Dude, what do you think we're doing? We are fighting for our way of life, our freedoms, our jobs and our identity! We are fighting an enemy who "walks" across our borders illegally, demands the same rights and benefits as a citizen WITHOUT paying their dues, and is depleting our social care system...

American citizens and patriots are fighting a war in defense of our county! Would it be any more plain if I got a gun and started shooting?

Talk about "strong symbols"! I can hardly think of anything more galvanizing to action than to see the flag of some other nation flying above or in lieu of my own.

Thats your opinion. The school I went to had two flags up the poles, both at equal height, our countries flag and the flag of the country our partner school was, Finland in thsi case. I concidered it as sign of respect to have the flags at equal height, but this is again a mater of opinion wether you think the country in question deserves the respect or not.

No it's NOT an opinion. It is FEDERAL law... Here's a link with a listing of the protocols in displaying the US flag in the US. The source is The United States Code. Title 4, Chapter 1 - The Flag
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html#5

And allow me to quote from the same site:
"International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace."

BTW, I didn't accuse you personally of condemming me. Sorry if you interpreted my post that way...
'nuff said...

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

Dude, what do you think we're doing? We are fighting for our way of life, our freedoms, our jobs and our identity! We are fighting an enemy who "walks" across our borders illegally, demands the same rights and benefits as a citizen WITHOUT paying their dues, and is depleting our social care system...

I agree that illegal imigrants are a problem, but im pretty sure that the Mexican government isnt sending them to the US in an act of agression.

No it's NOT an opinion. It is FEDERAL law... Here's a link with a listing of the protocols in displaying the US flag in the US. The source is The United States Code. Title 4, Chapter 1 - The Flag
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html#5

And allow me to quote from the same site:
"International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace."

BTW, I didn't accuse you personally of condemming me. Sorry if you interpreted my post that way...
'nuff said...

Fair ennough, my mistake. I dont know US laws.