In a Quandry

[Vonsteel]

Well im in a bit of a pickle atm. Really NOT sure on who to use or use bits and bobs of single mods in SH4.

I was a total user with Beerys mod RFB. But it appears to be slightly falling on the way side. I tried Tiggers Maru, and was good as it refaced everything basically but a few annoyances, map contact updating etc i like to be able to see where ships etc are on the map.

So im stuck.. Either stick with Tiggers, go with RFB but add other bits or just go through the list on what i like and add what is needed..

Anyway id like to hear what other people might have to say on this subject etc thxs

[switch.dota]

TM all the way. Even for river counters and realism extremists. The combination of NSM and low torp damage make for quite realistic damage models. I'm not really sure HOW RFB is better right now.

[THE_MASK]

Originally Posted by switch.dota

TM all the way. Even for river counters and realism extremists. The combination of NSM and low torp damage make for quite realistic damage models. I'm not really sure HOW RFB is better right now.

I didnt know TM had more rivers . I might try this .

[OlegM]

I prefer RFB over TM. TM made DD AI even more dangerous and IMHO DDs are already too numerous and too smart and all-seeing even in the stock game. Japs were simply BAD at ASW, and the game should reflect that. There are other ways to make the game challening other than upping the DD AI and sensors.

RFB is not being updated anymore but I see it as a good thing as after some time all modders seem to fall victims to "overloading disease" and start adding stuff to their mega mods that I prefer not to use, and not to even have to deal with. RFB did what it planned to do, did it well, and that's it. It does not need updating every week or so. In all honesty I would prefer other mods to stop adding new stuff as well.

[tater]

DDs are certainly mor emunerous in the stock game. Every convoy has 4, multiply by 35 to 40 convoys that happen every 3 days or so 70% of the time on 1 week plus trips...

lesse, that's ~196 DDs just on convoy duty at any given moment in stock SH4. More than they had, actually. Then there are troop convoys, about 50% of which have 4 DDs. That's ~100 more DDs. Probably 50 more in subhunter groups at any moment, maybe more, and at any moment at least 50 in TFs, probably more. Then call all the ones in harbor maybe 50 for slop (I bet it's over 100 in fact).

So in stock: ~450 DDs at sea any given moment.

That's what you have if you play a stock campaign. 450 DDs at sea any given second (way more than the japanese actually had of all escort types combined counting all wartime production). The principal failing of IJN ASW doctrine was failing to task the ships as escorts and convoy. NOT just their capability.

With 450 ASW assets at any moment, the AI capability would have to be set very low to mitigate for the grossly excessive numbers of escorts. That's a principal issue I have with RFB, actually (I like RFB, BTW). In order to make the ASW less capable with the stock campaign's insane number of escorts, the ASW has to really stink for any given escort.

[OlegM]

Originally Posted by tater

With 450 ASW assets at any moment, the AI capability would have to be set very low to mitigate for the grossly excessive numbers of escorts. That's a principal issue I have with RFB, actually (I like RFB, BTW). In order to make the ASW less capable with the stock campaign's insane number of escorts, the ASW has to really stink for any given escort.

I wouldn't comment on that. I use RFB for all round realism, and your own mod on top of RFB for "traffic realism", so as far as simulating realistic levels of traffic go, I trust you did a good job and know what you're talking about.

However, my point was that I distinctively don't like what TM does, ie it makes DDs too smart and their sensors too good to suit my preference for realism. They are already too good in stock game. The fact that TM escorts have upped skill levels was a deal breaker for me and the key reason I never took TM into serious consideration (just my personal opinion of course).

[Vonsteel]

Well ok thxs for the reply and as you say TM all the way.... But as i said i dont like the contact map update business off it i like to have the option wether to see task forces spotted or not way off.. With TM atm i have no option to turn it on or off.

[switch.dota]

Yes you do!

With map contacts on, you basically have auto-plotting, with the exception that it doesn't give you GPS-accurate reading on composition and heading while you are still 20 miles out. Every contact, friend or foe, merchant or warship, uses the same square (zoomed out) or dot (zoomed in) symbol. However clicking that dot on the nav map reveals if it's a warship or merchant.

Yes, it's not the instant contact update you're used to but it's actually more exciting this way. You'll quickly learn not to pursue medium speed contacts of two ships (the usual ASW patrol) At first I was tempted to turn off the map contact stuff in TM (you can - just read the documentation - and it only involves deleting a file from TM before installing), but after a few patrols I started to like it. It fixed the major annoyance related to no contact updates - TCing straight into a taskforce because the TC wouldn't drop back automatically on visual contact.

[NefariousKoel]

Originally Posted by Vonsteel

Well im in a bit of a pickle atm. Really NOT sure on who to use or use bits and bobs of single mods in SH4.

I was a total user with Beerys mod RFB. But it appears to be slightly falling on the way side. I tried Tiggers Maru, and was good as it refaced everything basically but a few annoyances, map contact updating etc i like to be able to see where ships etc are on the map.

So im stuck.. Either stick with Tiggers, go with RFB but add other bits or just go through the list on what i like and add what is needed..

Anyway id like to hear what other people might have to say on this subject etc thxs

I'm going to put a new update for TM Lite up probably early next week.

I removed much of the no friend or foe stuff from TM and replaced them with plain black contacts. You won't have a dashed bearing line on sonar (but they'll all be black - no black & blue stuff) and you can see the ships on the map (and their silhouettes when zoomed in). They still won't have "tails" showing their heading, at least while zoomed out, so you won't be able to check AoB and heading easily on the nav map unless you're close.

I still gotta tinker with a few other things I wanted to change and test a bit.

[Bill Nichols]

Personally, I'm running RFB with a handful of other mods on top. I do plan to give TM a try, though, as soon as my current career is over.

[Rockin Robbins]

Is it the ship silhouettes and course barbs you want back? In the readme that nobody reads, Ducimus tells you how to make that happen. Actually that is the strength of Trigger Maru. Just like Beery, Ducimus tells you how to customize it to your liking.

But do me a favor. Live with TM's way of plotting for just one cruise. At the end, I bet you say it's WAY better than the old way. I believe it is the closest thing to a real plotting team, leaving plenty of room for careless mistakes but still giving you some check on your plot. I know it's intimidating and I know you just think you have to know which way those ships are pointing by inspection only, but trust me, it's better the Trigger Maru way, and way more exciting.

I was tracking one of the infamous 2 ship medium speed convoys once and made the mistake of pinging when they were 1000 yards away to do the WernerSobe sonar targeting trick.... The trick was on me. A 30 knot charge from 1000 yards is as exciting as it gets.