Mark 23 ? - Page 2

STEED · 07-08-07, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seagate

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

Full path details please.

\Silent Hunter IV\Data\UPCData\UPCUnitsData

File Ammunition with notepad

Example:

[Ammunition 12]
ID=Mk23Torpedo
NameDisplayable= Mark 23 Torpedo
Type= AmmoTorpedo
Subtype=Mk23TorpUS
AmmunitionIntervalOptionCurrent= NULL, NULL, 0
AmmunitionIntervalOptions1= 1943-01-01, 1944-01-15, 100
AmmunitionIntervalOptions2= 1944-01-16, 1946-12-31, 0
Volume= 1
PackSize=1

Change the line (last numbers in the line is "cost")
AmmunitionIntervalOptions1= 1943-01-01, 1944-01-15, 100 to
AmmunitionIntervalOptions1= 1943-01-01, 1944-01-15, 0

*Sidenote same folder file UpgradePacks edit for "free" guns/AA/radar

And don't forget to back up files before edit.

Cheers I will give this a go.

pythos · 07-08-07, 12:41 PM

The fact you have to "spend" renown I think is a big mess up for both games. Why? Well, why does your prestige with the commander drop because you order a certain piece of material? I think the way to have done it is, when you do something that earns a good rep, that adds to your renown, this level of renown is not affected by what weapons you choose to add to your boat. The only way you lose renown is if you do something bad, or have several bad patrols.

Now, the amount of renown is what determines the number of "special" torps or equipment you can have. So someone with a relatively low amount of renown can only acquire two mk23s, or one cutie, while the skipper of Mush Morton's caliber would be able to completely outfit his stores with all cuties, or mk23s.

Also, taking damage should not lower your renown. Surviving a brutal depth charging should be a bonus to your crew's moral, and a small increase to renown. If there is a way for the game to figure out the method of the damage applied, such as someone being foolhardy and duking it out with a destroyer on the surface, then perhaps the whole taking a hit in renown due to damage taken could be implimented.

Hey, perhaps this is an idea for a mod.

elanaiba · 07-08-07, 01:59 PM

Even if commanders, supply clerks and other guys think much of you, there's only a finite amount of stuff that you can request from them -> the renown.

There is a separate "rating" that you have with your commander, and it is not affected by how much renown you spend.

STEED · 07-09-07, 08:17 AM

Thanks to seagate all my torps and equipment are now free.

PepsiCan · 07-09-07, 10:22 AM

Your torpedoes always were free mate

What you mean is that you now can call in unlimited favours with your resupply guy and the person who assigns the latest hardware to the boats

Be careful though, all this new equipement may get the others jealous. It is amazing how many subs were involved in friendly fire accidents.

tater · 07-09-07, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

However during wwII mark23 was the most used torpedoe. It replaced mark14 due to its flaws with the detonator and depth control. You shouldnt pay anything for a torpedoe that everyone used.

Yes, but there are other factors.

In RL, many boats (earlier in the war) were sent on mining missions---largely because there was a shortage of torpedos, and they simply could not send every boat to sea with a full load.

"Renown" in game is a function of results. Skippers that sank ships were more likely to get a full load instead of tubes filled with mines, or NO reload torpedos, and a supply mission (ships on the commando and supply missions carried NO torpedos other than those in the tubes themselves since the cargo/troops were stored instead of torpedos).

So renown cost is a way to represent this.

It a total campaign redo, I'm thinking of making mk14s cost something, mk10s, too. I'd dearly love to mod in a new "torpedo" that was a mine, then make a fair number of mining missions...

There might be other solutions if, for example, it was possible to control the number of torpedos of each type in base.

tater

STEED · 07-09-07, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepsiCan

Your torpedoes always were free mate

What you mean is that you now can call in unlimited favours with your resupply guy and the person who assigns the latest hardware to the boats

Be careful though, all this new equipement may get the others jealous. It is amazing how many subs were involved in friendly fire accidents.

Really :hmm:

Why is there a cost of renown when picking up torps and guns?

PepsiCan · 07-10-07, 04:32 AM

Renown is only used for scarce things I believe. In the first two years there was a serious torpedo shortage. Only good skippers got a full load. But in 1944, there was no shortage anymore, so you'll see that you can load torpedos for free as of 1944.

Same thing with the 5 inch gun. It was limited in availability at first and then became the standard on many boats.

So, that is what Elenaiba meant when he said, that renown is not money. It is a way to get at the new and scarce stuff at an early stage. Eventually, you'll get it for free when it becomes massively available.

STEED · 07-10-07, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepsiCan

Renown is only used for scarce things I believe. In the first two years there was a serious torpedo shortage. Only good skippers got a full load. But in 1944, there was no shortage anymore, so you'll see that you can load torpedos for free as of 1944.

Same thing with the 5 inch gun. It was limited in availability at first and then became the standard on many boats.

So, that is what Elenaiba meant when he said, that renown is not money. It is a way to get at the new and scarce stuff at an early stage. Eventually, you'll get it for free when it becomes massively available.

There is one torp you still pay 500 renown for right to the end of the war, I forget which type it is but it's that little one. Any way I am all fixed up now I got the lot more early as I bump up the dates and free.

tater · 07-10-07, 09:18 AM

They still had limited numbers of things. They'd give cuties to guys they thought would go out and use them. They were loathe to give boats to reservists, and they were always short of skippers (look at the class dates of the skippers, they'd begrudgingly take skippers from later and later years of the Academy). ANyway, they had timid skippers even late in the war. They'd give stuff to the guys they thought would use it first.

I actually don;t think the renown costs are used nearly as much as they should be, actually.

OTOH, some things can cost less or nothing. New gear like radar, etc, should just get added at some point, though I could see them giving new versions to the skippers that get out there and sink ships first as well. The game can account for this, the radar cost can be 500 until some time, then drop to 0, for example.

PepsiCan · 07-10-07, 09:56 AM

Tater

Maybe time for a renown mod? Because I agree with you, even in mid 1942 you can still collect 24 torps, eventhough in real life the best boats didn't get a full load.

tater · 07-10-07, 10:24 AM

It's a complicated thing, actually. It will have to be done in the context of a super mod, IMO since renown is a function of tonnage sunk, missons completed, etc.

Making it cost 50 to buy a mk14 would only work for skippers not sinking 100k per patrol, for example. It's extremely complicated.

Ideally, we'd be able to mod a new "torpedo" in. It would be a mine. We'd make mines free, and make mining missions common early in the war.

Under such a mod, the paradigm for taking missions would be you'd put in to port. Right now, the first thing you'd do would be to get new torpedos, etc, probably, then you'd click the map and head out. In a new system, you'd FIRST click the map to get your orders. If the mission said "mine Camrahn Bay" you'd then hit the "BACK" button and load with mines (not wasting renown on torpedos). Another option would be to have mines be free, and then if you lack the renown to buy enough torpedos, take mines. Assume the real mission orders were to mine the harbor nearest the patrol zone, then patrol. The mining mission would be implicit by virtue of not leaving with less than a full load of torpedos. Any special mission (assuming you want realistic play) for supply or commandos would have the player hit the back button and dump all his torpedos not in tubes.

A lot will fall on the player to "play it real."

Palidian · 07-10-07, 10:26 AM

Torpedo Mk 23 was developed to satisfy what appeared to be a valid tactical requirement of World War II: the high-speed feature of the Mk 14 torpedo. In the early stages of the war, the low-speed feature (31 knots - 9000 yards) of the Mk 14 was rarely used. Due to the changing requirements of the war, however, most of the 9600 Mk 23 torpedoes saw little service. In the latter stages of the second World War, fewer targets and better/smarter escorts/escort tactics necessitated firing from longer ranges. The Mk 14 torpedo, with its low power and longer range, became the preferred weapon. Much of the Mk 23 inventory was scrapped or converted to Torpedoes Mk 14 while other units were cannibalized for spare parts. This submarine-launched, anti surface ship torpedo was developed by the Naval Torpedo Station, Newport, R.I., and produced by the Naval Torpedo Stations at Newport; Alexandria, Va.; and Keyport, Wash.; and by the Naval Ordnance Plant, St. Louis, Mo.

The Mk 23 would have the same stats as the Mk 14, aside from no speed setting, or magnetic detonator. The contact detonator mark 6 mod 13.

07-08-07, 12:41 PM	#17
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Where both sh3 and sh4 get it wrong The fact you have to "spend" renown I think is a big mess up for both games. Why? Well, why does your prestige with the commander drop because you order a certain piece of material? I think the way to have done it is, when you do something that earns a good rep, that adds to your renown, this level of renown is not affected by what weapons you choose to add to your boat. The only way you lose renown is if you do something bad, or have several bad patrols. Now, the amount of renown is what determines the number of "special" torps or equipment you can have. So someone with a relatively low amount of renown can only acquire two mk23s, or one cutie, while the skipper of Mush Morton's caliber would be able to completely outfit his stores with all cuties, or mk23s. Also, taking damage should not lower your renown. Surviving a brutal depth charging should be a bonus to your crew's moral, and a small increase to renown. If there is a way for the game to figure out the method of the damage applied, such as someone being foolhardy and duking it out with a destroyer on the surface, then perhaps the whole taking a hit in renown due to damage taken could be implimented. Hey, perhaps this is an idea for a mod.

07-08-07, 01:59 PM	#18
elanaiba Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,058 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 3	Even if commanders, supply clerks and other guys think much of you, there's only a finite amount of stuff that you can request from them -> the renown. There is a separate "rating" that you have with your commander, and it is not affected by how much renown you spend. __________________ With strength I burn...

07-09-07, 08:17 AM	#19
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Thanks to seagate all my torps and equipment are now free. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

07-09-07, 10:22 AM	#20
PepsiCan Planesman Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 189 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	A slight rephrase Your torpedoes always were free mate What you mean is that you now can call in unlimited favours with your resupply guy and the person who assigns the latest hardware to the boats Be careful though, all this new equipement may get the others jealous. It is amazing how many subs were involved in friendly fire accidents. __________________ =================== AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.1Ghz 1Gb RAM MSI NVidia 6800 128MB MSI motherboard Realtek soundcard Windows XP Pro SP2 ===================

07-10-07, 04:32 AM	#23
PepsiCan Planesman Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 189 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Because... Renown is only used for scarce things I believe. In the first two years there was a serious torpedo shortage. Only good skippers got a full load. But in 1944, there was no shortage anymore, so you'll see that you can load torpedos for free as of 1944. Same thing with the 5 inch gun. It was limited in availability at first and then became the standard on many boats. So, that is what Elenaiba meant when he said, that renown is not money. It is a way to get at the new and scarce stuff at an early stage. Eventually, you'll get it for free when it becomes massively available. __________________ =================== AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.1Ghz 1Gb RAM MSI NVidia 6800 128MB MSI motherboard Realtek soundcard Windows XP Pro SP2 ===================

07-10-07, 09:18 AM	#25
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	They still had limited numbers of things. They'd give cuties to guys they thought would go out and use them. They were loathe to give boats to reservists, and they were always short of skippers (look at the class dates of the skippers, they'd begrudgingly take skippers from later and later years of the Academy). ANyway, they had timid skippers even late in the war. They'd give stuff to the guys they thought would use it first. I actually don;t think the renown costs are used nearly as much as they should be, actually. OTOH, some things can cost less or nothing. New gear like radar, etc, should just get added at some point, though I could see them giving new versions to the skippers that get out there and sink ships first as well. The game can account for this, the radar cost can be 500 until some time, then drop to 0, for example.

07-10-07, 09:56 AM	#26
PepsiCan Planesman Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 189 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	A renown mod? Tater Maybe time for a renown mod? Because I agree with you, even in mid 1942 you can still collect 24 torps, eventhough in real life the best boats didn't get a full load. __________________ =================== AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.1Ghz 1Gb RAM MSI NVidia 6800 128MB MSI motherboard Realtek soundcard Windows XP Pro SP2 ===================

07-10-07, 10:24 AM	#27
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	It's a complicated thing, actually. It will have to be done in the context of a super mod, IMO since renown is a function of tonnage sunk, missons completed, etc. Making it cost 50 to buy a mk14 would only work for skippers not sinking 100k per patrol, for example. It's extremely complicated. Ideally, we'd be able to mod a new "torpedo" in. It would be a mine. We'd make mines free, and make mining missions common early in the war. Under such a mod, the paradigm for taking missions would be you'd put in to port. Right now, the first thing you'd do would be to get new torpedos, etc, probably, then you'd click the map and head out. In a new system, you'd FIRST click the map to get your orders. If the mission said "mine Camrahn Bay" you'd then hit the "BACK" button and load with mines (not wasting renown on torpedos). Another option would be to have mines be free, and then if you lack the renown to buy enough torpedos, take mines. Assume the real mission orders were to mine the harbor nearest the patrol zone, then patrol. The mining mission would be implicit by virtue of not leaving with less than a full load of torpedos. Any special mission (assuming you want realistic play) for supply or commandos would have the player hit the back button and dump all his torpedos not in tubes. A lot will fall on the player to "play it real."

07-10-07, 10:26 AM	#28
Palidian Gunner Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 98 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Torpedo Mk 23 was developed to satisfy what appeared to be a valid tactical requirement of World War II: the high-speed feature of the Mk 14 torpedo. In the early stages of the war, the low-speed feature (31 knots - 9000 yards) of the Mk 14 was rarely used. Due to the changing requirements of the war, however, most of the 9600 Mk 23 torpedoes saw little service. In the latter stages of the second World War, fewer targets and better/smarter escorts/escort tactics necessitated firing from longer ranges. The Mk 14 torpedo, with its low power and longer range, became the preferred weapon. Much of the Mk 23 inventory was scrapped or converted to Torpedoes Mk 14 while other units were cannibalized for spare parts. This submarine-launched, anti surface ship torpedo was developed by the Naval Torpedo Station, Newport, R.I., and produced by the Naval Torpedo Stations at Newport; Alexandria, Va.; and Keyport, Wash.; and by the Naval Ordnance Plant, St. Louis, Mo. The Mk 23 would have the same stats as the Mk 14, aside from no speed setting, or magnetic detonator. The contact detonator mark 6 mod 13.