Sacked... - Page 2

Kapitan · 06-12-07, 04:16 PM

That is a good point here in the RN we are running low on submarineers apparently (dont know if its true or not ramius will probably know) but if we kept doing that to our skippers then no sub would be able to go to sea dont forget we have what 12 subs, although america can afford to loose a few along the way at this rate they wont be able to sustain the loss which means more and more incompetant officers are drafted to a command inexperianced which causes more and more problems and accidents and its just a cycle.

If i was an employer about to employ a captain to command one of my new boats and i had a guy with a 20 year unblemished record but not paper work qualified, and a 28 year old fresh from sub school with no experiance in command and certificates coming out of thier ear holes i personaly would choose the older guy simply because he has been there done that.

Of corse its the other way round now days.

06-12-07, 04:23 PM

I totally agree 100% with you, Kapitan! Nothing beats the experience, but I assume US NAVY has sub commanders of age at least 35, no?:hmm:

Hakahura · 06-12-07, 04:28 PM

Many valid points gentlemen.

But do not forget we are dealing with the military here.

These are institutions which in some cases have centuries of tradition behind them.
They have always done things these ways, and always will.
These traditions have served them well for hundreds of years.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

You cannot apply civilian standards to a uniform service in these situations without damaging the service which you seek to improve.

Military forces work best when given clear, unambiguous orders by the civilian leadership and are then left to carry said orders out in the manner they see fit without interferrence.

Kapitan · 06-12-07, 04:28 PM

According to what im told by a RN officer once he stated we have commanders of the age of 28 in command of warships and submarines, now average age is around 35 -38 but he was on about the really young ones.

Linton · 06-12-07, 05:48 PM

In WW2 some of the RN submarine commanders were in their early twenties.Thirty eight was considerd retirement age.

CCIP · 06-12-07, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linton

In WW2 some of the RN submarine commanders were in their early twenties.Thirty eight was considerd retirement age.

On that point, in the Kriegsmarine during early war the bottom limit was 25, but by late war it was taken out and the youngest U-boat commander was just 20.

Happy Times · 06-12-07, 08:14 PM

Quote:

It is almost impossible to give out a proper order based on incoplete and unverified information that is given at the moment...

LOL, this was a constant theme during our war games. You just have to evaluate the situation, make a plan, go through with it 100%. Then you see how it went and evaluate the situation again.

Its funny how some people freeze. One Second Lieutenant that had top points couldnt cut it outside the classroom. We didnt see him in any of the refresher training we have had.

06-13-07, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Quote:

It is almost impossible to give out a proper order based on incoplete and unverified information that is given at the moment...

LOL, this was a constant theme during our war games. You just have to evaluate the situation, make a plan, go through with it 100%. Then you see how it went and evaluate the situation again.

Its funny how some people freeze. One Second Lieutenant that had top points couldnt cut it outside the classroom. We didnt see him in any of the refresher training we have had.

Maybe because he was learning "by-the-book" and not improvised?:hmm:

Happy Times · 06-13-07, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakunGak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Quote:

It is almost impossible to give out a proper order based on incoplete and unverified information that is given at the moment...

LOL, this was a constant theme during our war games. You just have to evaluate the situation, make a plan, go through with it 100%. Then you see how it went and evaluate the situation again.

Its funny how some people freeze. One Second Lieutenant that had top points couldnt cut it outside the classroom. We didnt see him in any of the refresher training we have had.

Maybe because he was learning "by-the-book" and not improvised?:hmm:

Thats true, he was suppose to be a team leader but usually the NCOs had to take over at some point. He was cautious in the wrong place and reckless in a nother.

AVGWarhawk · 06-13-07, 08:34 AM

Quote:

At the end of the day your the captain the navy has given you a $1 billion dollar toy to go play with

Exactly. What smash one and ask for another. I do not think so. It is a great responsiblity and they are put there because the powers that be believe he as a captain can handle the great responsibility.

I recommend the captain surrounds himself with damn good people!

bradclark1 · 06-13-07, 09:35 AM

I think it's got a lot to do with attention to detail and situational awareness. If he can make a mistake that grounds his ship, what mistakes can he make when under combat stress. It's strictly the commanders responsibility by virtue of rank and position that his people are properly trained. If there is a screw-up it's on him.

August · 06-13-07, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linton

In WW2 some of the RN submarine commanders were in their early twenties.Thirty eight was considerd retirement age.

In WW2 Submarines were a lot smaller and less powerful than they are today. A 24 year old is not someone I would want with his finger on the trigger of enough nuclear weapons to wipe out half the earth.

06-13-07, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linton

In WW2 some of the RN submarine commanders were in their early twenties.Thirty eight was considerd retirement age.

In WW2 Submarines were a lot smaller and less powerful than they are today. A 24 year old is not someone I would want with his finger on the trigger of enough nuclear weapons to wipe out half the earth.

And not with some paranoid grandpa either.

I once read that the British sub commanders have this piece of paper that, if they lost any communication with the command or someone nukes UK and everyone is dead, they have a preset targets ready to drop their cargo at. Let's assume they have Italy for example, and Italy didn't do that, how they will prove that to the commander of a UK sub that they are shooting in the wrong place?:hmm:

06-13-07, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linton

In WW2 some of the RN submarine commanders were in their early twenties.Thirty eight was considerd retirement age.

In WW2 Submarines were a lot smaller and less powerful than they are today. A 24 year old is not someone I would want with his finger on the trigger of enough nuclear weapons to wipe out half the earth.

SSN's don't carry nuclear cargo 'cept reactor, right?:hmm:

Happy Times · 06-13-07, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakunGak

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linton

In WW2 some of the RN submarine commanders were in their early twenties.Thirty eight was considerd retirement age.

In WW2 Submarines were a lot smaller and less powerful than they are today. A 24 year old is not someone I would want with his finger on the trigger of enough nuclear weapons to wipe out half the earth.

SSN's don't carry nuclear cargo 'cept reactor, right?:hmm:

Wouldnt bet on that.

06-12-07, 04:16 PM	#16
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	That is a good point here in the RN we are running low on submarineers apparently (dont know if its true or not ramius will probably know) but if we kept doing that to our skippers then no sub would be able to go to sea dont forget we have what 12 subs, although america can afford to loose a few along the way at this rate they wont be able to sustain the loss which means more and more incompetant officers are drafted to a command inexperianced which causes more and more problems and accidents and its just a cycle. If i was an employer about to employ a captain to command one of my new boats and i had a guy with a 20 year unblemished record but not paper work qualified, and a 28 year old fresh from sub school with no experiance in command and certificates coming out of thier ear holes i personaly would choose the older guy simply because he has been there done that. Of corse its the other way round now days. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

06-12-07, 04:28 PM	#18
Hakahura Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Posts: 785 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Many valid points gentlemen. But do not forget we are dealing with the military here. These are institutions which in some cases have centuries of tradition behind them. They have always done things these ways, and always will. These traditions have served them well for hundreds of years. If it ain't broke don't fix it. You cannot apply civilian standards to a uniform service in these situations without damaging the service which you seek to improve. Military forces work best when given clear, unambiguous orders by the civilian leadership and are then left to carry said orders out in the manner they see fit without interferrence. __________________ Sir Humphey Appleby, GCB, KBE, MVO and MA. Britain's Greatest Orator, well bar that Churchill fellow.

06-12-07, 04:28 PM	#19
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	According to what im told by a RN officer once he stated we have commanders of the age of 28 in command of warships and submarines, now average age is around 35 -38 but he was on about the really young ones. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

06-12-07, 05:48 PM	#20
Linton Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	In WW2 some of the RN submarine commanders were in their early twenties.Thirty eight was considerd retirement age. __________________ http://lintonsview.blogspot.com/

06-12-07, 04:23 PM	#17
GakunGak Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I totally agree 100% with you, Kapitan! Nothing beats the experience, but I assume US NAVY has sub commanders of age at least 35, no?:hmm:

06-13-07, 09:35 AM	#26
bradclark1 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA. Posts: 2,794 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	I think it's got a lot to do with attention to detail and situational awareness. If he can make a mistake that grounds his ship, what mistakes can he make when under combat stress. It's strictly the commanders responsibility by virtue of rank and position that his people are properly trained. If there is a screw-up it's on him.