Shame on these people

[mapuc]

To Neal:

Open fire, well many danish citizen said the same, when the danish police "clean out" a occupied house On "jagtvej 69"

Those protestan had no sympathy at all.

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Lurchi

From what i've heard the exact opposite was true: It were the german authorities who had completely overdone this whole security thing - even the secret service personnel shook their head over the native genius who decided to close down a complete freeway junction which led to complete chaos. Bush obviously wasn't too amused when he was driven through Ghosttowns which was the exact opposite from the visits of Ronald Reagan or -especially- John F. Kennedy () who were cheered by the population.

Sorry, but I know that one better, first-hand from a friend of mine who has been associated with the foreign ministry. Sorry that I can't give you the details on him, but he wouldn't like it. I know him from my adventure times - back then he was a freelance correspondent. At least that's what he said. Sometimes I thought that he also was a bit of something different. Which often is difficult to separate in the Middle East.

And since you mentioned the assassinations - how many presidents have been shot in the last decades inside america, by Americans, and how many have been shot by foreigners? They tried Roosevelt, Ford (now that was really a harmless guy), and Reagan; they succeeded with Kennedy. Noboy tried Nixon, or Bush junior. Hm.

Today'S events have something good: for the next days, the police is warned. I know that during today, additional BGS units have been put on alarm throughout Gemany and got marching order towards Heiligendamm. Officials do not make it a high-profile story.

And while the Nazis were denied to demosntrate in Schwerin, they surprised the police in Berlin and demonstrated there, unhindered and mostly unguarded. Bad failure by the intelligence guys...

Check out the photo gallery. These masked thugs are out in the open. If the Germans have any respect for their law and the people sworn to uphold that law they would demand an armed response, a handful of well placed snipers would do the trick. Drop a few and the problem will go away.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...486307,00.html

[AntEater]

Strange question nobody asks:
Who are these "black block" people?
At Frankfurt University during my "protest" phase (a man who isnt a socialist at 20 has no heart....), I knew pretty much everybody active in student politics on the left side and there were only about half a dozen people who fit into that category.
Where do you get 3000 of those? Hafenstrasse? Kreuzberg? Kreuzberg seems to be more the scene of Jihad than of anarchist violence lately.
Also it is strange that our internal intelligence services seem to do so little about these people. I mean they seem to have infiltrated the neo nazi scene quite well.
Strange about this demonstration was that the protesters I saw on videos seemed almost as well organised and uniformed as the police. You could really tell apart the violent ones from the peaceful ones just by looking at them before even the stones started flying.
Almost like an army.

Regarding shooting, shooting incidents are what turns protest into civil war. If somebody starts shooting, somebody is bound to shoot back eventually.
Politics aside, in a riot situation, I think the use of firearms is totally counterproductive, as the ranges are too close. Unless you use machineguns to mow everybody down (german police had MG 42s until about 1990), you cannot possible shoot them all and you might get rushed by the protesters, who might take guns from police officers and use them against the police. Until some new non lethal weaponry becomes available, tear gas, batons and watercannon are still the weapons of choice.
Also, do you really want to be the police officer who shoots first?
I know a police officer who once shot a guy in a self defense situation and nearly lost his job and his family over it.

And the fact that my government is not willing to gun down people at random for some vague concept as "respect for the law", even violent anarchist at will is the reason I think our constitution and government are worth supporting and worthy of Germany even though I disagree with many decisions the current government has made.

Funny I thought that Germany had a representative gov't aka a republic. When these F*ckers disobey the law the are saying the German people are are not worth any respect. If they come from outside the country now you see what its like in Iraq. When you send the message that the consequences for violence are minimal the empowerment is great. I say again kill a few of these would be anarchists and the problem will go away.

The current response makes Germany and the German people look very weak indeed.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Funny I thought that Germany had a representative gov't aka a republic. When these F*ckers disobey the law the are saying the German people are are not worth any respect. If they come from outside the country now you see what its like in Iraq. When you send the message that the consequences for violence are minimal the empowerment is great. I say again kill a few of these would be anarchists and the problem will go away.

Thats right wastegate. The way to get rid of people who don't respect the constitution and the rights and freedoms of others and the society that governs all of those principles is to just ignore those principles and kill them without trial and in a disproportionate response.

People like this show up because of bonehead draconian ideas like that. Its why everytime Israel bombs the Gaza Strip it doesn't make any real difference. Kill a few today and you create a dozen tomorrow. Not to mention the fact that if the police started to kill any and all violent protestors you'd just get more riots over such blatant civil rights abuses and corrupt and out of control police.

Where do you get these ideas from?

Originally Posted by P_Funk

Thats right wastegate. The way to get rid of people who don't respect the constitution and the rights and freedoms of others and the society that governs all of those principles is to just ignore those principles and kill them without trial and in a disproportionate response.

People like this show up because of bonehead draconian ideas like that. Its why everytime Israel bombs the Gaza Strip it doesn't make any real difference. Kill a few today and you create a dozen tomorrow. Not to mention the fact that if the police started to kill any and all violent protestors you'd just get more riots over such blatant civil rights abuses and corrupt and out of control police.

Where do you get these ideas from?

Thats BS. These people came to break the law and cause serious injury, if not death. Talk yourself blue it won't stop them until they see serious consequence. The world is a tough place where tough decisions have to be made and talking about it changes nothing.

[Frenssen]

Peaceful demonstrations is a part of democracy, but these violent thugs are scum and should be treated as such.
But if one of them gets killed there would be an uproar in the media, so the police are fighting with one hand on their back.

[Skybird]

We call these people "Autonomer Block". It is a wild mixture of anarchists, hooligans, loosers, "socially handicapped" people, anti-this, anti-that, not working, for the most they tend towards the far left political ideas as they interpret them (often wrongly), in the 80s they occupied plenty of houses in Berlin. I by bad chance found myself in three of those streetbattles Berlin saw in those years, when I left a cinema, a library in the America-house, and a shopping mall. It was no pleasant place to be. Two times I needed to shortly rumble with policemen who wrongly identified me as a hostile, but it ended by reasonable quick communication- there i was lucky. but one time I was attacked by masked thugs. That opportunity became a hefty affair, and i was much weaker, and young, and unsure of myself.

Shame on such people. Their primitiveness and "Scheißegal"-mentality is disgusting. today i would have the means and ability to deal far more brutally with them, if being attacked again. back then it was too early for me - i took much more than I was able to give.

Ein Scheißtag war das!

[tycho102]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

These police are just doing their job, I do not agree there is anything so henious about a G-8 summit that merits this level of violence from "protesters".

Open fire! I say

I agree, though I don't know if they should be using rubber or ball ammo. Maybe that new microwave device.

Or, you know, a plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. Whatever gets the job done.

[Tchocky]

I remember the ceremony in Dublin, when 15 countries were joining the Eu, the security was similiarly excessive.
I mean, nothing transpired bar some shouting and marching, but the newspapers were full of predictions of terror attacks et bleedin' cetera.

Wrong place, wrong time? I don't know, but that water cannon hurt like hell. i guess holding a placard with both hands is a drenchable offence.

Originally Posted by Tchocky

I remember the ceremony in Dublin, when 15 countries were joining the Eu, the security was similiarly excessive.
I mean, nothing transpired bar some shouting and marching, but the newspapers were full of predictions of terror attacks et bleedin' cetera.

Wrong place, wrong time? I don't know, but that water cannon hurt like hell. i guess holding a placard with both hands is a drenchable offence.

Begs to question what is 'excessive' security in the face of folks like this?
Does the existance of security require an attack on that security with rocks or any weapon which is available?

Why would one see security as a target unless they want to make trouble?

[Tchocky]

some good questions, tough to answer.

I know that I've never wanted to hurt any security officer, except after being physically assaulted for no reason. That was not a function of reason, I was mad, angry. Very often security forces are bordering on paranoia, marshaling protesters to "free-speech zones" etc, and this creates anger and resentment. Getting clubbed for no reason doesn't help.

This was ****ing nasty -
I was at the other end of Dame Street when this happened.

Does the existance of security require an attack on that security with rocks or any weapon which is available?

No. There is no reason to attack security forces. It does no good.
Sadly, there are some out there who enjoy taking a crack at the police. Also, there are police who enjoy battering hippies. And evidently, there's someone who enjoys knocking a guy with a sign off of his feet with a water cannon. (did i mention it hurt).
There was no violence that day except that of the police.

I remember talking to my cousin in 2001, he was in Genoa. Just after Carlo Giuliani was shot. A horrible atmosphere. The night before, the Italian police had raided a large hall, where many peaceful protesters were sleeping. A lot of blood was spilled and tensions were extremely high the next day. Things got out of hand, and some Italian trooper shot a young man who was carrying a fire extinguisher. That said, he had it over his head, and was on top of a police car. Stupid. It cost him.
Along with the dead man's friends and family, I felt sorry for the young policeman who had to kill someone.

Why would one see security as a target unless they want to make trouble?

Exactly, those who want to make trouble see security forces as targets.

Those who want to make a statement see police as obstacles that cannot be directly challenged.

I don't know what it looks like from the police side.

Well-armed snipers? Are you being serious?
That's myopic in the extreme.

[Officerpuppy]

I have no sympathy for those who knowingly and willingly plan an armed, violent protest. I do have sympathy for those who get cought in the middle as either non-violent protesters or on lookers.

Having been in situations where violence could easily escalate during my time as a reserve police officer I can understand the tensions on both sides of the barricade, unfortunately the emotions of people can get the better of someone, police officer and protester alike.

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by Skybird

We call these people "Autonomer Block". It is a wild mixture of anarchists, hooligans, loosers, "socially handicapped" people, anti-this, anti-that, not working, for the most they tend towards the far left political ideas as they interpret them (often wrongly).

These idiots have no political ideas. They don't have any ideas at all. But they all know that none of the peaceful people on those demonstrations will harm them. They can roam freely, they are even invited by the organisation of the demonstrations. The police again suffers fom understaffing and low funds. The police people have to do highly dangerous work for a long time with the expectation of getting beaten up - anyone surprised that they lose temper (Skybird, "lose" and "loser" are spelled with just one 'o').

The worst among the crowd are thoese peaceful demonstrators who just stand around and do nothing while their reputation and their credibility is destroyed by a bunch of anarchists.