Calling for djihad now officially allowed in Germany

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

In the US, you can say pretty much anything you want.

Not entirely true - you cannot threaten anyone, for which calling for Jihad would violate, so this would not be allowed in the US.

The difference is that we've got rednecks... and those rednecks have guns and don't mind killing and/or threatening dark looking people.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but the bottom line is that people who insist on being outsiders in American culture feel our xenophobia/ignorance breathing down on them with force of arms.

In Europe, a FAR more fundamentally racist and hateful place than the United States, they've run themselves dry of the kind of fight necessary to maintain their own civilizations in the face of a 21st century barbarian horde, having destroyed their continent twice in the last 100 years.

Cheers,
David

PS Oh yeah, and the flip side is that we actually give immigrants a fighting chance to integrate into our society... ahem, France et al.

I agree 100%!

[LuftWolf]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Not entirely true - you cannot threaten anyone, for which calling for Jihad would violate, so this would not be allowed in the US.

Well... in the US it is perhaps more of a gray issue than in other countries with limited freedom of speech.

In the US, we pretty much do have unlimited freedom of speech... with the only limitations on the speech of private citizens being that the speech itself cannot constitute a criminal act, so nothing that would be conspiracy or menacing.

Basically, anything short of speech that creates a threat to public safety is allowed (the classic example being not to yell "fire" in a public theater)... so nothing you can say would be a crime because of the theme or topic of the speech, but rather the conditions that are or might be caused by the speech itself.

If that makes any sense...

Cheers,
David

[Hitman]

I somehow suppose that the decission had not exactly the words "you can demand the submission and killing of infidels, you only are not allowed to practice djihad. You are allowed to propagate and publicly support terroristic ideas and organisations, you are just not allowed the membership in and material support for them", but instead something different. Would like to read it myself if you can post it, pleaze . Probably the court has not the same concept as you about what Jihad is (I'm not saying who I think is right), as I doubt much that a court anywhere in EU can say that propagating and publicly supporting terroristic ideas and organisations is OK.

But anyway, you germans are IMO sadly still unfairly paying a high price for the errors of your grandfathers:hmm: And what's worser, I don't think the supposed *tolerant and democratic example* of the german politics and laws are in fact what the german Volk wants. I think I know germans a bit, I admire them much and would prefer to have born german rather than spanish...but certainly they don't rate in my list as a tolerant nation.

Since I cannot read the arcticle (this is an english speaking forum) I cannot make a judgement. When I can find something in english I may comment.


I'd like to know the whole story before I comment. Sorry to say it, but skybird has an agenda, and I will not take his partial translation as the important part of the arcticle.

[Heibges]

You used to be able to say stuff like that in the United States, and the KKK often did. But with all the new hate crime laws you will find yourself between a rock and hard place in a hurry.

The only people it is okay to pick on in America is gays and lesbians.

Originally Posted by Heibges

The only people it is okay to pick on in America is gays and lesbians.

That's not true.

Hate crimes (also known as bias crimes) are crimes motivated by bias against an identifiable social group, usually groups defined by race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.

My suggestion would be if one was to commit a crime based on the above; say nothing and just do the crime. After all hate has no place in criminal activity.

[Heibges]

Originally Posted by waste gate

That's not true.

Hate crimes (also known as bias crimes) are crimes motivated by bias against an identifiable social group, usually groups defined by race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.

My suggestion would be if one was to commit a crime based on the above; say nothing and just do the crime. After all hate has no place in criminal activity.

You are right. I used to ride Golden Gate Transit between San Francisco and San Rafael. San Quentin releases it's prisoners at the bus station in San Rafael. I was talking with this ex-prisoner on the bus one day, and he explained how he went down to the Castro, beat up a gay gentleman, called him names at the same time, and now was looking at Two Strikes. He was going back to Oklahoma.

But what I was really referring to was Bush not wanting to afford them federal protections, because this would place several religious groups, who consider homosexuality to be immoral, in violation of federal law.

Originally Posted by Heibges.

But what I was really referring to was Bush not wanting to afford them federal protections, because this would place several religious groups, who consider homosexuality to be immoral, in violation of federal law.

Congress makes law, not POTUS.
They have done nothing because any federal law would violate the tenth amendment.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

zero tolerance for ALL religons... forge tthe past... what can we do about it.. wut happened happened.... zero tolerance for all religons... religons and state DO NOT mix...

I like this

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

[Heibges]

True, but in schools in the south they used the Bible to justify Segregation.

Then the Government went ahead to enact the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and other legistlation meant to combat this.

[Yahoshua]

Now to address the original topic:

This is a sad day for Germany, when the german people and government are willing to tolerate a group that is openly hostile to german freedoms and ideals that has made germany better than the evil twin that once was. The problem now, is that the good twin is too timid to defend what has been gained.

[fatty]

I have the utmost faith in our man Skybird but I would like to see an English report on this to read and weigh for myself. Anyone have any luck?

[baggygreen]

No luck here.

Someone, i think mrs KP there, said that its so germany doesnt get bombed when the ME goes on the offensive...

Maybe its so they can be given the capital city of the western half of the caliphate..

In all honesty, its not just a german problem. Its happening everywhere. A good example down under is Sheik Taj al din Elhilaly. or somethin like that. Im sure some of his words were spread around the worlds news outlets at various times in the past few years... This bloke has openly supported AQ, has openly supported a group of young animals led by bilal skaf who raped for hours a number of poor women who 'brought it on themselves'. He has openly called for sharia law here, he has said that muslim australians are more aussie than 'infidels'..

deadset, this bloke is a wanker of the highest order and oughta be deported. But oh no, we cant offend the muslims, and we cant offend the civil libertarians!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by fatty

I have the utmost faith in our man Skybird but I would like to see an English report on this to read and weigh for myself. Anyone have any luck?

The news has not been reported by many german media - most jumped it completely. Die Welt also put it very fast from page one (online edition) to some hidden place, deep inside the archiv. "Die Welt" is one of Germany's leading conservative newspapers. Beyond what I said, the article says that the change was "necessary" due to new laws from 2002 and 2003 that were meant to strengthen freedom of speech. In the past, declaring your sympathy for terror organization was under penalty, and for whatever crazy reason, this they wanted to exclude from the list of misdeeds you could get penalized for. don'T ask me why somebody could argue that this is a smart move, I don't know the inside of such well-meaning brains. Die Welt reports, that the freedom of such expressions remains proteced, no matter how inhumane or disgusting it is by content (I wonder why rejecting the Holocaust is under penalty then, or Hitler's "Mein Kampf" is forbidden). The article also says that the case that triggered it all was coming from the office of the federal state attorney and was about a man spreading internet adverts and sympathizing movies for Al Quaeda, namely more than fourty such movies. In these movies, the killing of victims, past terror strikes, and the war of Al Quaeda were explicitly justified and excused. Well, he can now go on, thanks to lawmakers who have serious orientation problems concerning reality.

German constitution, article 1,1 (that is the very first basic rule in our constitution):
The dignity of man is inviolable. To respect and protect it is the duty of all state authority

Except the dignity of targets and victims of terror, and Muhammedan aggression, which are no longer protected by the constitution. Also note the articles I quoted in my reply to Frau Phillips. Maximum freedom to attack for the aggressor. no duties and obligations for him, please.

Some weeks ago a female judge argued, that a man whipping his wife acted in conformity with his culture's rule (why the hell is this well-integrating man from marocco living in Germany, when German standards have not become his standards then?), and that rule based on the Sharia. So she let him have his way, and at court even referred to the Sharia as basis of her ruling. Law experts here say that such things are just the tip of the iceberg. Sharian standards are in full drive to infiltrate and undermine the german laws and courts. Muhammeddan organizations pay huge sums and encourage colonists to go to the court in favour of some Muslim demand at every single, no matter how small an opportunity. They loose most cases, but the sheer numbers of cases nevertheless makes sure that a slow, steady progression towards sharia views of things is maintained by winning the remaining, and constantly hollowing out the laws and legal system.

Constant dripping wears away the stone .