Am I reading this right?

[kiwi_2005]

So if someone brought vista made an image then ripped out all the bloatware put it back together so its a 646mb file and installed vista without the bloatware hence making vista run like its on steriods would this be a copyright issue? Even though they brought Vista, but ripped it.:hmm:

Originally Posted by CCIP

Except you're forgetting that the law has not been on the side of the modders. Nor would this be. In fact it's more likely that a more severe copyright law would go after the modders rather than support them, as much of what they do could, in fact, be construed as hacking, distribution of licensed content (as technically all game data is owned by the game company) and thus violation of copyright.

Except you are forgetting that the core program hasn't been used for the modifications and in fact many of the mods have been used by UBI to make SH4 better.

[CCIP]

That's a somewhat naive viewpoint; the only mods that don't use Ubisoft's original content are usually graphics mods and other minor detail. Any gameplay mod, which are by the way in the majority for both SHIII and IV, involve modification of and redistribution of Ubi's data.
And if we want to really dig deep, Ubi did not ask permission to use some of my work for SHIV (which I don't mind, but that's a fact).

That said, I totally don't mind. And I totally agree that modders, as 'grey' as their area may be are beneficial to both the community and to Ubisoft.

But you need to be careful what you define as copyright. I again refer you to Professor Lessig. He does an excellent job of showing how the definition of intellectual property in the current law is flawed, and what's worse, fatally flawed in a way that kills creativity and may one day give us a permission-based culture where things like modding are simply impossible.
You can even read his book for free online: http://www.free-culture.cc/freecontent/

[ASWnut101]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

So if someone brought vista made an image then ripped out all the bloatware put it back together so its a 646mb file and installed vista without the bloatware hence making vista run like its on steriods would this be a copyright issue? Even though they brought Vista, but ripped it.:hmm:

Only if they distributed it.

Originally Posted by CCIP

That's a somewhat naive viewpoint; the only mods that don't use Ubisoft's original content are usually graphics mods and other minor detail. Any gameplay mod, which are by the way in the majority for both SHIII and IV, involve modification of and redistribution of Ubi's data.
And if we want to really dig deep, Ubi did not ask permission to use some of my work for SHIV (which I don't mind, but that's a fact).

That said, I totally don't mind. And I totally agree that modders, as 'grey' as their area may be are beneficial to both the community and to Ubisoft.

But you need to be careful what you define as copyright. I again refer you to Professor Lessig. He does an excellent job of showing how the definition of intellectual property in the current law is flawed, and what's worse, fatally flawed in a way that kills creativity and may one day give us a permission-based culture where things like modding are simply impossible.
You can even read his book for free online: http://www.free-culture.cc/freecontent/

My question is; why aren't you upset that UBI is using your work for their profit?
Don't you think that your work is worth compensation? Especially as someone else is gaining profit from your work?

Do I need to go back into the archeives and see what you said about X-1?

[CCIP]

Well, to me if I don't lose anything then I am fine. Any work I contributed towards SHIII/IV, to me, is not really worth any money and I can't realistically see myself asking for any for it. I'd rather the community benefit from it than cause headaches for Ubi and make them cease publishing simulations altogether. And I definitely don't see my rights to some ridiculously stupid profit as being more important than having a healthy community and a subsim to play.

I don't do programming for a living, I do other things. If I did everything for a living, my participation in the community would be a gloomy and boring affair. As far as X-1, I've always been a relative moderate on the issue, though I took particular pleasure in helping embarass them. They may have made money, but you're showing a perfect example of how a moral victory over them has been won. For all else - I'm sure their wrongdoing will one day come back to them with interest. You could say I believe in karma.

Originally Posted by CCIP

Well, to me if I don't lose anything then I am fine. Any work I contributed towards SHIII/IV, to me, is not really worth any money and I can't realistically see myself asking for any for it. I'd rather the community benefit from it than cause headaches for Ubi and make them cease publishing simulations altogether. And I definitely don't see my rights to some ridiculously stupid profit as being more important than having a healthy community and a subsim to play.

I don't do programming for a living, I do other things. If I did everything for a living, my participation in the community would be a gloomy and boring affair. As far as X-1, I've always been a relative moderate on the issue, though I took particular pleasure in helping embarass them. They may have made money, but you're showing a perfect example of how a moral victory over them has been won. For all else - I'm sure their wrongdoing will one day come back to them with interest. You could say I believe in karma.

I understand that you do things for the community CCIP, but that isn't the point. The point is that if others are making a profit from your work you should make a profit, however small, also. That is also the point of all IP laws.

[jumpy]

The way things seem to be going, before too much longer the world we live in will be a very dull shade of grey, with no initiative or invention, ideas or anything 'new' and every time you pass wind you'll have to swipe your cash card/personal tracker for the benefit of some biotechnology company who've licensed farts. [/doomsayer]
:rotfl: