Whats with the aft tubes? - Page 2

SteamWake · 05-01-07, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Why aft tubes? Ten is better than six.

Would boat balance also be a factor ?

kikn79 · 05-01-07, 12:01 PM

There was a story (from the book "Red Scorpion") of the Rasher when Henry Munson was the captain, he was out of bow torps and was frustrated trying to line up the stern tubes. It states he tried to back into position, but the rudder kept falling to one side or another and thwarting his efforts.

I believe he eventually got into position and was able to take a couple ships down.

Chuck

Snuffy · 05-01-07, 12:04 PM

I use the stern tubes the same as the forward tubes ... I run the boat in reverse while using them. Just have to remember that for turns, the rudder needs to be in the opposite direction than where you want to go.

I bagged a couple merchants last night with 3 of the stern fish.

U-Bones · 05-01-07, 12:33 PM

Given an opportune situation, any time I can get TO the target track in a timely fashion, I will leave it slowly at 90 degrees and open with my stern tubes.

Bane · 05-01-07, 12:41 PM

When using the stern tubes I try to cross over the targets path and creep away into firing position. I don't think I've ever used reverse for anything. I find trying to get the boat turned 180 degrees at a slow enough speed to remain undetected is too slow to be useful.

Subnuts · 05-01-07, 01:11 PM

I think it's useful to remember that the Fleet boats were called that because they were designed to fight with the fleet, not independantly of it. They were designed to run on the surface at high speeds, communicating with the main battle force, and finally submerging and "thinning out" the enemy before the fleet arrived. Therefore, it makes sense that they'd have a heavy torpedo armament, since a submarine sneaking inside of an enemy task force would need all the torpedoes it could fire. A Fleet boat sneaking inside of a task force could sink a battleship with it's forward tubes and a cripple another with it's stern tubes. When they designed the Fleet boats back in the early 30s, they never thought they'd be sending them againist lone merchants. Or at least that's how I'm seeing it.

SteamWake · 05-01-07, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subnuts

they were designed to fight with the fleet, not independantly of it. They were designed to run on the surface at high speeds, communicating with the main battle force, and finally submerging and "thinning out" the enemy before the fleet arrived.

Sweet ! Where can I get that mod !!!

Oh nevermind

SingeDebile · 05-01-07, 03:19 PM

when your intercepting a convoy i sometimes like to sit right in the middle of it... so ill use up all my forward torps for those infront and rear torps for those passing behind...

this may only be realistically possible without the manual tdc since it gets kinda crazy quickly when you are switching between targets

SingeDebile · 05-01-07, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7Enigma

From a theoretical and safety (of the ship and crew) standpoint, it would actually be beneficial to have ALL tubes AFT. This would allow you to lay and wait for your prey, fire off a salvo, then immediately be able to leave as directly as possible.

Having tubes foreward requires a sub to fire at their target, then evade by first moving CLOSER to the target while turning away. I know if it was my arse on the line, I would prefer to have the immediate exit rather then having to turn away as my ship is being hunted....

i like this

deamyont · 05-01-07, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7Enigma

From a theoretical and safety (of the ship and crew) standpoint, it would actually be beneficial to have ALL tubes AFT. This would allow you to lay and wait for your prey, fire off a salvo, then immediately be able to leave as directly as possible.

Having tubes foreward requires a sub to fire at their target, then evade by first moving CLOSER to the target while turning away. I know if it was my arse on the line, I would prefer to have the immediate exit rather then having to turn away as my ship is being hunted....

With all tubes aft, the sub would need to make a 180 degree turn after aproaching a convoy. This would take a lot of time at silent running at 2 knots, time it dont have. Also, it would show of the biggest possible signature towards all directions...

And youre not diving towards the threat. When attacking the convoy the escorts are on your sides, and even behind. Youre diving towards a harmless merchant.

No, all tubes bow. Aproach convoy stealthy, fire all torpedoes and crash dive. Escorts hear you but its to late for the ships in the convoy to evade the torpedoes. Even if the smaller ships might be agile enough to turn, they cant because of the other ships around them. While crash diving, turn. It looks like you dive towards the targets but youre now sailing away. And the escorts cant hear you over the sounds of sinking ships...

I like that over the scenario when you sneak in, and take minutes of extra time turning, giving escorts a chance to kill you before you even fired.

In real life, do you think they would like the idea of taking a huge fleet submarine inside a convoy, rather than to stay at safe range?

deamyont · 05-01-07, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Why aft tubes? Ten is better than six.

If you only have time to fire those at the front, (check previous post) wouldnt it be better to have all torpedoes stored at the front?

Ducimus · 05-01-07, 04:17 PM

I use my aft tubes for single merchants, to finish off a wounded ship when using a deck gun is not feasible, or as a means of self defense if pursued by a Tin Can.

Everything else gets a bow shot

Sailor Steve · 05-01-07, 04:19 PM

Ten tubes forward? Twelve? That would take a pretty big cross-section. Twenty-four torpedoes for six tubes? No room to store them.

The thinking was probably as Subnuts described, with the added safety of being able to shoot as you run. Even the Germans had one or two aft, depending on the boat.

perisher · 05-01-07, 04:50 PM

The ten forward firing tubes in the British T class comprised of the "normal" six interior tubes in the torpedo room. Above them, outside of the pressure hull but under the casing, were two external tubes. (Like the external storage in a U boat, except these were launch tubes facing forward.) The other two forward tubes were either side of the conning tower, where the casing bulged out to allow a walkway around the tower. So they didn't do much to increase the cross section.

Very handy if you stumble upon the Tirpitz.

deamyont · 05-02-07, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Even the Germans had one or two aft, depending on the boat.

Not on the XXI

05-01-07, 12:04 PM	#18
Snuffy XO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 420 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I use the stern tubes the same as the forward tubes ... I run the boat in reverse while using them. Just have to remember that for turns, the rudder needs to be in the opposite direction than where you want to go. I bagged a couple merchants last night with 3 of the stern fish. __________________ ----------------- Snuffy!

05-01-07, 03:19 PM	#23
SingeDebile Seaman Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 33 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	when your intercepting a convoy i sometimes like to sit right in the middle of it... so ill use up all my forward torps for those infront and rear torps for those passing behind... this may only be realistically possible without the manual tdc since it gets kinda crazy quickly when you are switching between targets __________________ animal kingdom phylum

05-01-07, 04:19 PM	#28
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Ten tubes forward? Twelve? That would take a pretty big cross-section. Twenty-four torpedoes for six tubes? No room to store them. The thinking was probably as Subnuts described, with the added safety of being able to shoot as you run. Even the Germans had one or two aft, depending on the boat. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

05-01-07, 04:50 PM	#29
perisher Frogman Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 300 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	The ten forward firing tubes in the British T class comprised of the "normal" six interior tubes in the torpedo room. Above them, outside of the pressure hull but under the casing, were two external tubes. (Like the external storage in a U boat, except these were launch tubes facing forward.) The other two forward tubes were either side of the conning tower, where the casing bulged out to allow a walkway around the tower. So they didn't do much to increase the cross section. Very handy if you stumble upon the Tirpitz. __________________ "Pitt was the greatest fool who ever lived to encourage a mode of war which they who commanded the seas did not want, and which, if successful, would deprive them of it." Earl St.Vincent (allegedly)

05-01-07, 12:01 PM	#17
kikn79 Medic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 166 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	There was a story (from the book "Red Scorpion") of the Rasher when Henry Munson was the captain, he was out of bow torps and was frustrated trying to line up the stern tubes. It states he tried to back into position, but the rudder kept falling to one side or another and thwarting his efforts. I believe he eventually got into position and was able to take a couple ships down. Chuck

05-01-07, 12:33 PM	#19
U-Bones Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Treading Water Posts: 847 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	Given an opportune situation, any time I can get TO the target track in a timely fashion, I will leave it slowly at 90 degrees and open with my stern tubes.

05-01-07, 12:41 PM	#20
Bane Torpedoman Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 119 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	When using the stern tubes I try to cross over the targets path and creep away into firing position. I don't think I've ever used reverse for anything. I find trying to get the boat turned 180 degrees at a slow enough speed to remain undetected is too slow to be useful.

05-01-07, 01:11 PM	#21
Subnuts The Old Man Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,658 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	I think it's useful to remember that the Fleet boats were called that because they were designed to fight with the fleet, not independantly of it. They were designed to run on the surface at high speeds, communicating with the main battle force, and finally submerging and "thinning out" the enemy before the fleet arrived. Therefore, it makes sense that they'd have a heavy torpedo armament, since a submarine sneaking inside of an enemy task force would need all the torpedoes it could fire. A Fleet boat sneaking inside of a task force could sink a battleship with it's forward tubes and a cripple another with it's stern tubes. When they designed the Fleet boats back in the early 30s, they never thought they'd be sending them againist lone merchants. Or at least that's how I'm seeing it.

05-01-07, 04:17 PM	#27
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I use my aft tubes for single merchants, to finish off a wounded ship when using a deck gun is not feasible, or as a means of self defense if pursued by a Tin Can. Everything else gets a bow shot