[TEC] Observation about zones.cfg

[Ducimus]

:hmm:

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by U-Bones

Redwine I think I have not explained well.

I think there are ONLY 2 things that subs use in zones.cfg.
It reads Crit Floatation for every compartment from the periscope sections
It reads FloodingTime for every compartment from the periscope section.

No hitpoints are used
No Floatations are used
No Parent are used
No Armor are used.
etc

All these other things are now obtained from *.upc files, or hidden elsewhere.

zones.cfg may still be used by surface ships - no idea.

mmmh... there is something strange here...

I increased my hitpoint, at in example Obs periscope and it works... hitpoint, armor, flooding time seems to works... :hmm::hmm::hmm:

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Redwine

mmmh... there is something strange here...

I increased my hitpoint, at in example Obs periscope and it works... hitpoint, armor, flooding time seems to works... :hmm::hmm::hmm:

Immediately after loading the sub, save the game and check your save file. You will find that sub hitpoints and compartment hitpoints and equipment hitpoints do NOT get values from zones.cfg. They come from upc.

I set each item in the Uboat section of zones.cfg to hitpoints=701 to 782 and looked for those values in quite a few saves and never saw them. A change to the upc file hitpoints show up in the save game. Floatation never appears in a save file, nor does Armor, etc.

zones.cfg is no longer what it appears to be.

[donut]

I have tried Redwine's changes to zones.cfg,& they make the game more playable.
Although they might not be the final fix, for realism sake,I will follow this thread, We are looking for a patch. It might be prudent to see what the Dev's put out. I am encouraged at your understanding of the *.upc files, Ubones. Sure hope you are on to something there.We all wish to understand ! Location: Treading Water:rotfl:

[U-Bones]

Here is a test I did.

It shows that crit floatation is not used as a trigger level for flooding. I really have no idea what it is now lol. Comments and ideas welcome.


NSS_porpoise.cfg
;===============
max depth set to 250m 820ft

nss_porpoise.zon
;==========
hull hp 600
Crash depth 100m 328 ft
Crash speed .002 (wanted VERY slow to watch flooding and damage)

zones.cfg
;================
; New Sub Section
;================

[PeriscopeAttack]
Critic Flotation=0.700000 ; 70% should start flooding ???
FloodingTime=100000 ; 10 * faster than the slowest setting

[PeriscopeObservation]
Critic Flotation=0.350000 ; 35% should start flooding 2 * as fast ????
FloodingTime=1000000 ; slowest possible leak .000001
;============


I loaded quick mission with porpoise. It hit and used settings from attack scope

Now here are some snips from several save files. There was other damage but I focus on stern and hull.

After DC hit at 325 ft - just above crash depth of 328
almost direct hit on stern -less than 1% damage on hull, but 51% on aft compartment.

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Porpoise
Evolution=Normal ;; no battlestations yet
Damage=0.001684 ;; this is hull damage in percentage

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 1]
ID=PorpoiseSternTorpedo
Hitpoints=200.000000
Efficiency=0.239914
Damage=0.518639
DamageHitpointsConsumed=103.727707
RemainingRepairTime=0000-00-00 00:07:18
FltDamage=0.000000
CriticalFlotation=0.700000 ; here is the crit floatation from attk peri in zones.cfg
FloodingLevel=0.020002
FloodingTime=0000-00-00 0046
FloodingSpeed=0.000010 ;here is 10* faster than slowest possible of .000001

In spite of the crit floatation set at 70%, flooding was occuring at 51% damage. called battlestations, called for 200ft, and went flank. listened to CE call out falling depths...


@1649ft hit bottom. I think batteries stopped at 820ft ??? not sure exactly where.
damage repaired in stern - but still showing consumed hp ?
stern battery destroyed
bow battery undamaged but showing 0/100 ??
still pumping ??

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Porpoise
Evolution=Battle_Stations
Damage=0.223376

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 1]
ID=PorpoiseSternTorpedo
Hitpoints=200.000000
; compartment hp from data\submarines\nss_porpoise\nss_porpoise.upc
Efficiency=0.777898
Damage=0.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed=71.068138
RemainingRepairTime=0000--88--70 23:57:17
FltDamage=0.000000
CriticalFlotation=0.700000
FloodingLevel=0.778191
FloodingTime=0000-00-00 00:00:52
FloodingSpeed=0.000010


one hour on bottom - barely crushing - damage clean 0 consumed - still pumping

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Porpoise
Evolution=Battle_Stations
Damage=0.223566

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 1]
ID=PorpoiseSternTorpedo
Hitpoints=200.000000
Efficiency=0.811866
Damage=0.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed=0.000000
RemainingRepairTime=0000--88--70 23:57:17
FltDamage=0.000000
CriticalFlotation=0.700000
FloodingLevel=0.263615
FloodingTime=0000-00-00 00:00:00
FloodingSpeed=0.000010


two hours on bottom -
absolutely recovered stern except no batteries
blowing tanks does nothing - suspect because exceeded 820 max depth - inoperable sub
no increase in hull damage.

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Porpoise
Evolution=Battle_Stations
Damage=0.223566


[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 1]
ID=PorpoiseSternTorpedo
Hitpoints=200.000000
Efficiency=0.796697
Damage=0.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed=0.000000
RemainingRepairTime=0000--88--70 23:57:17
FltDamage=0.000000
CriticalFlotation=0.700000
FloodingLevel=0.000000
FloodingTime=0000-00-00 00:00:00
FloodingSpeed=0.000010

OK this one is just to show another tag from a upc file.

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 3.EquipmentSlot 11.Equipment]
ID=ObsPeriscope
NameDisplayable=Observation Periscope
EquipmentInterval=1900-01-01, 1999-12-31
EquipmentSlotType=USPeriscope
ExternalLinkName3D=NULL
FunctionalType=EqFTypePeriscopeBody
Hitpoints=219.000000
;hp from data\upcdata\upcunitsdata\equipment.upc - not zones.cfg
EfficiencyHumanFactor=1.000000
EfficiencyMechanicFactor=1.000000
Efficiency=1.000000
Damage=0.000000 ; how did this get repaired - is red on board ????
DamageHitpointsConsumed=18.792816 ; must be repaired on surface
RemainingRepairTime=0000--88--70 23:56:30


Bottom line is I have absolutely no doubt that the sub load is
1. pick attack OR obs periscope
2. load crit float and floodingtime from selected periscope. lol

HP comes totally from upc, except for hull.

flooding can happen below crit flood. unless the number is capped under .7 Appears I was right to not assume it still means the same thing... :hmm: I have no idea what it means now...

Q: what if max depth is set to 3280ft ? would battery not turn off ? could you blow to surface from 900 ? I am not sure you can keep a heavy boat up.... no mater HOW SLOW you nerf flooding and hull crush damage.

So what is the depth that we should allow repair/pump on the bottom ? Could be interesting.

Also.... !!
I think I know how to stop the chain reaction of compartment to compartment flooding. Not sure what else it will effect.

equipment.upc
[Equipment 36]
ID=Bulkhead
NameDisplayable= Bulkhead
FunctionalType= EqFTypeBulkhead
EquipmentInterval= NULL, NULL
EquipmentSlotType=NULL ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;was;;;;;Wall <<=== !!!
ExternalLinkName3D= NULL
Hitpoints= 236

Comments and tests and feedback and questions please.

[U-Bones]

Further testing with crash speed .02 instead of .002
Batteries are weird. All this occured well above crash depth, so the max depth is not the issue.

At 25% in game with NO damage showing on either - only topside external damage. savegame shows NO damage to batteries (~320ft)

At 0% in game with NO damage showing on either - other compartment damage and flooding present. Savegame shows one destroyed and one at 10% - but hull is 100% and get circle of death 10 seconds after save. (~80ft).

It is REAL HARD to get a sub with even light hull damage to not sink. The deeper, the more pronounced and the faster you have to go. It is like hull damage and depth are now linked to floatibility. I see no mention of floatibility anywhere in saves...

I remember in SH1 I liked to stay near relatively shallow water to lay on the bottom and survive. I have a feeling I will again start looking for hunting areas with a comfortable bottom...

[tater]

^^^except every time I am on the bottom hoping to repair, the damage seems to accelerate (as if I'm getting collision damage sitting on the bottom).

tater

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by tater

^^^except every time I am on the bottom hoping to repair, the damage seems to accelerate (as if I'm getting collision damage sitting on the bottom).

tater

Yeah but I imagine you did not have silly slow crash speeds like I did for this test.

Sad thing is - even if you do sit on the bottom at say 300ft, repair all your damage, and pump out all the water.... I dont believe you can get up in most cases because hull damage = weight.

I am afraid it is usually not the flooding that takes you to the bottom it is the invisible hull damage weight. I am hoping hard that this is not the case... I am still waiting for the right damage combo.

[tater]

I see to recal a pretty gentle bump, but when I started getting damage (I was in fairly shallow water), I went to the external cam, and the sub was bouncing.

[U-Bones]

Yeah, I have heard of bottom damage but I have not experienced it myself, at least that I could seperate from what was happening anyway.

I just figured out how to give youself the damage you want - load a nice calm opening scenario - surfaced, and save. Edit the saved file to have exactly the damage you want, then reload.

[Redwine]

There are some changes in this game, some settings are not same as in SH III.

In example, into SH III, the maximundepth into cfg files, is the maximun depth at wich the game's 3D engine modelates a unit, a ship or a sub. Under this value the ship or sub, disapears.

About the critical flotation, if i dont remember bad... it was the weight of the water wich cause negative buoyancy.
May be i am wrong... but 0.35 means 35% of water cause negative buoyancy...

And Bump ...!

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Redwine

There are some changes in this game, some settings are not same as in SH III.

In example, into SH III, the maximundepth into cfg files, is the maximun depth at wich the game's 3D engine modelates a unit, a ship or a sub. Under this value the ship or sub, disapears.

About the critical flotation, if i dont remember bad... it was the weight of the water wich cause negative buoyancy.
May be i am wrong... but 0.35 means 35% of water cause negative buoyancy...

And Bump ...!

My recollection of how SH3 zone.cfg varibles worked was

[CommandRoom]
Category=Command Room ; don't remember this one
Multiplier=1.100000 ; 10% chance to roll critical damage
Flotability=30 ; relative weight of water in this compartment
Hitpoints=200 ; HP
Destructible=No ; as far as I know this never worked
Armor Level=-1 ; -1 was "same as hull" higher +number is better
Critic Flotation=0.231007;0.25 ; % of damage before flooding
Critical=No ; as far as I know this had no effect
Effect1=#dc_bubbles, 30 ; damageeffect, percent damage to use it
FloodingTime=3601;120 ; relative speed of flooding
CargoType=None ; not aware it was ever used on subs

[Redwine]

Many Thanks !

I was confused by recall between Flotability and Critic Flotation...

The problem seem sto be the Bulkhead...

Just few minutes ago....

1]
I had taked damage into the after torpedo room, loss tow torp tubes and no pitch up effect, and was able to divve later.

2]
But i receive the we are taking damage with no visible damage at any place.

3]
With Bulkhead damage, even when you recive the alla damages repaired sir, or some thing similar, i dont remember well, and with no visible damage, if you dive, you sinks.

It may be real... but we need a message "hull so stressed sir, dive not reccomended..." intead an "all damage repaired sir"

About the hit points and armor... when i removed the -1 from all compartements and asign a random value... low as 5, it seems to be more easy to take damage...

Does it means the armor works in Zones.cfg ?

The same seems to happens almost for me with hit points, i increased the periscope hit points and periscope destruction droops down...

Still working and researching please.... and share your results.

and Bump !

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Redwine

Many Thanks !

I was confused by recall between Flotability and Critic Flotation...

The problem seem sto be the Bulkhead...

Just few minutes ago....

1]
I had taked damage into the after torpedo room, loss tow torp tubes and no pitch up effect, and was able to divve later.

2]
But i receive the we are taking damage with no visible damage at any place.

3]
With Bulkhead damage, even when you recive the alla damages repaired sir, or some thing similar, i dont remember well, and with no visible damage, if you dive, you sinks.

It may be real... but we need a message "hull so stressed sir, dive not reccomended..." intead an "all damage repaired sir"

About the hit points and armor... when i removed the -1 from all compartements and asign a random value... low as 5, it seems to be more easy to take damage...

Does it means the armor works in Zones.cfg ?

The same seems to happens almost for me with hit points, i increased the periscope hit points and periscope destruction droops down...

Still working and researching please.... and share your results.

and Bump !

Armor is not saved anywhere in the save files. So my suspicion is that it is simply using the armor value from the sub hull for -all- compartments and equipment. (I wish I knew where hull armor was set - i imagine it is in nss_*.zon but we don't know the offset.).

Look in your save files - you will see your hitpoints. If you put funny values in zones.cfg you will NOT see them show up in the save file. Tag the UPC hitpoints with funny values and they DO show up in the save files.

Compartments: data\submarines\nss_*\nss_*.upc
Equipment: data\UPCData\UPCUnitsData\Equipment.upc

[Captainrave]

Originally Posted by U-Bones

Redwine I think I have not explained well.

I think there are ONLY 2 things that subs use in zones.cfg.
It reads Crit Floatation for every compartment from the periscope sections
It reads FloodingTime for every compartment from the periscope section.

No hitpoints are used
No Floatations are used
No Parent are used
No Armor are used.
etc

All these other things are now obtained from *.upc files, or hidden elsewhere.

zones.cfg may still be used by surface ships - no idea.

Explains why this file cant be used to make an invulnerable sub.