1UP SH4 game review by Jeff Lackey

[jtm55]

Hi All,

Neal, I agree with you 100%. I wish some of the other folk would tone down their criticism. There is so much that is right about Silent Hunter IV.

[Iron Budokan]

You just gotta love reviews that blame the gamer for the limitations of the game in question.

[Marko]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Sure they do. Imagine you are an artist, programmer, or designer of a high fidelity simulation, and you pop into the fan forum, and everyone is ranting wildly about some detail (right or wrongly, perhaps). You would wonder why so few mention how cool and realistic the torpedo impacts you spent days and night on are ignored. Or why no one praises the sound, feel, and gameplay accuracy of the hydrophone station. Or any of a lot of things. I would say who needs this?

Perhaps here we are missing the point.
Let’s say that you have a program that calculate your tax with an outstanding interface, cool animating buttons, futuristic scrolls down boxes etc, but …. but it makes calculation bad and another with a normal interface but when u go to your tax office is all ok.
What’s the core part of a simulation game?
Let’s speak about DW, i really don’t remeber what was the last game using 16bit graphics, so graphically speaking is not good but what about the simulation part? Very good.
What’s the category of SH and DW? Simulation.
I can understand the the graphics part of a game is important but don’t come to me and say that shIII graphics was bad?

What are you calling patchs are not patchs, you must read them in this way “Give us more time to finish this product.” TO FINISH. After that you can call any other piece of sotware that came patch.

I can’t belive that noone in the beta testing has never hitted that damn “A” button or said “People this radar system is a mess.”
What are guys giving rates on magazines actually rates? What a game WILL be? or what is it?
I can understand that a month after the game come out someone is starting to say “Hey! there is something going wrong with TDC” “ Oh yes torpedoes are not going at the right speed”. The update that come out is a PATCH.

Perhaps people is bored to buy unfinished products (I am).

Ubi is trying to hit two birds with one stone. I am with you Neal about that the hit of the torpedo is nice, that the water flowing from periscope is nice and I can add that I am able to go inside a convoy and look really near a destroyer or a battleship without using the free camera, “Woow what amazing texture has this battleship”.

The world decides that beauty is better that functionality that is why the simulation is dying.
And all of this is not about rivetcounters.

Tnx and best regards.

[Ducimus]

And all of this is not about rivetcounters.

True, its also about the people who seem to think that making a game is the same as making a car. And then blaming the makers of the game for their every woe, when it's realy the stiff suits at the corporate officers of the publisher who's only worried about "the bottom line" so they can keep their fat salaries ,that they should be angry at.

I would be surpised if we see another submarine simulator for a very long time to come. Niche market, "the bottom line" is marginal by comparision to other game genre's, and the audience of said market is impossible to satisfy. So why bother?

[leeclose]

Yeah nice article apart from the sarcasm and enough bugs in sh4 to fill a ant hill

[Snowman999]

True, its also about the people who seem to think that making a game is the same as making a car.

I think most folks with beefs have compared this game to the making of other games. Numerous examples have been cited of games that have not shipped in the unfinished state SH4 did. It can be done.

The other poster is also correct to point out the difference between a patch (corrects faults) and a file that attempts to finish functionality left out due to schedules.

And then blaming the makers of the game for their every woe, when it's realy the stiff suits at the corporate officers of the publisher who's only worried about "the bottom line" so they can keep their fat salaries ,that they should be angry at.

I don't care whose fault it is. My $50 is my $50. It's a consumer product competing with lots of others for my available cash. I simply don't buy the argument that we should buy unfinished, broken software in order to get a chance for more of the same in three years. Markets don't work like that.

I

would be surpised if we see another submarine simulator for a very long time to come. Niche market, "the bottom line" is marginal by comparision to other game genre's, and the audience of said market is impossible to satisfy. So why bother?

Yeah, lots of those former sim devs ran to MMOs because "everybody knew" that was where the gold was. Guess what? There's room for a couple at most.

Some ran to consoles. Guess what? Three competing platforms eating each other alive and restrictive licenses to get in the game.

The truth is we don't know what the returns on SH3 were. What we do know is they were sufficient to trigger SH4. Three years from now, who knows?

I also wish people would stop pulling out the niche flag. SH4 is not a niche product. In today's PC game universe no game that attains big-box distribution is a niche product--the economics themselves refute that claim. Want niche? Go look at Matrix games. SH3 had six-figure sales. Niche games are more on the order of 10,000.

I see a macro problem with Ubi's SH4 design decisions. They want "simmers" like us, but they don't want to make an actual sim. They want volumes available at big box brick&mortar, so they go for eye candy (but really don't as the FSAA etc. threads show.) They want to stay at $50 retail, so they compromise dev budgets, when an $80 retail and on-line download is a possible option that changes the business model, allows break-even at lower volumes (no MDF funds), and allows budget to go toward code rather than printed manuals and fancy tin boxes.

Overall I'm unsympathetic. They made their bed by trying to make a game, calling it a sim, insisting on casual gamers then not delivering wow graphics. Pick a target audience and design for it. But don't call it a sim if it's a game.

[tommyk]

I dont care for pukemon games or such. Make me a game I like and I buy it. If there is no game, then I do something else. no big deal...

I would not blame the customer if he does not like my product... I would just change my product or sell to someone else...

[Ducimus]

Overall I'm unsympathetic.

So am i, but i dont need to write a 4 page essay to illustrate that. Don't like the game? Think its buggy? outraged for whatever reason? Tough ****. It's all your going to get. People need to either suck it up and deal with it, Take it back and get a refund, or trade it in as a used game for store credit. Whining about it here like some consumer crusader accomplish's nothing.

[Skweetis]

I can’t belive that noone in the beta testing has never hitted that damn “A” button or said “People this radar system is a mess.”

I have to say that this WAS probably said, but creating a new build of a program in a timely fashion is a game of triage. There were probably things that were of more critical importance that needed to be addressed first.

Beta testing is MUCH more complex, boring and time consuming than one might think. A program is a living, breathing animal. Almost everything is related in someway to something else. Make one simple change of code in one function and it has a cascade effect on umpteen other parts of the program that you never considered a possibility.

Using the car building explanation, this would be like having your brake lights be in someway connected to your tires. Light bulb goes out, and you change it, the tires go flat and your gas tank starts leaking. Sounds odd, but this is essentially what can happen in programing.

[Snowman999]

So am i, but i dont need to write a 4 page essay to illustrate that. Don't like the game? Think its buggy? outraged for whatever reason? Tough ****.

Another apologist for mediocrity. My opinion here is as valid as anyones. Probably more so, as I know submarines, not just submarine sims.

It's all your going to get. People need to either suck it up and deal with it, Take it back and get a refund, or trade it in as a used game for store credit. Whining about it here like some consumer crusader accomplish's nothing.

It's that attitude that brought the world the Yugo.

Call it whining; I call it truth. I haven't bought the game. I may not. I followed its development for two years and was primed to get it ASAP, but these forums have done their job for me. I won't buy it until it's finished. I have also advised two friends and family it's not finished. I'll continue to do so, thanks.

[DanielMcintyre]

CTD is only a single issue, there are other gamebreaking issues that are as bad as well - surfacing or diving destroying your periscope being one of the worst - you really cant play a career at the moment since a periscope, crew and TC are all essential requirements and they do not work.

While its true that coupling is a real issue in programming; when you go to programming school you learn to design loosely coupled modular programs and functions / procedures to avoid things like the gas tank making your tires go flat - ie The gas tank has no relation to the tires, therefore it would be designed to never have an effect on the tires at all and if it did it would be labelled poor engineering. The whole idea of OOP was based around the concept of loose coupling imo.

[Skweetis]

Originally Posted by DanielMcintyre

While its true that coupling is a real issue in programming; when you go to programming school you learn to design loosely coupled modular programs and functions / procedures to avoid things like the gas tank making your tires go flat - ie The gas tank has no relation to the tires, therefore it would be designed to never have an effect on the tires at all and if it did it would be labelled poor engineering. The whole idea of OOP was based around the concept of loose coupling imo.

Without detracting much more from the original thread, I whole heartedly agree with you. However, time constraints tend to push things along to quickly, and while you can plan and design to your hearts content, because at its basically that, a plan. When it comes to crunch time, often in many things a plan gets thrown out the window in order to just get things done. In ages gone by I worked in structural engineering, and the tendering process can be a mad house where months of careful design gets ripped appart in a matter of hours to beat everyone else out to get the contract. Then get to the fabrication process, and all hell breaks loose because unanticipated things occur in the field. Now I'm firmly seated in the software industry and I have seen the same thing in different ways.

And in regards to the gas tank to tires relationship, I see it completely different... the amount of fuel in my tank corellates proportionately to the potential energy I have to apply through the engine and drive train to then on to the road via the tires. In design, maybe if I had of gone with a solar solution, it wouldn't have leaked, but the sun always sets.... [my tone in this is entirely friendly and playful]

So before we hijack any further, I'd be happy to discuss this further in the general forum!

Cheers Dan!

Edit: PS I havent had my periscope damaged while surfacing/diving yet... though I have experienced some of the issues others have.

[Karl-Heinz Jaeger]

*Beeeeeeeeeeep* goes the phone on UbiCorp's desk. Putting his copy of Vintage Car Enthusiast down for a moment, he reaches over and presses a button. "What is it, Diane?" UbiCorp asks. "Sorry to disturb you, Mr.UbiCorp, I have Mr.RivetCounter holding on two for you" pipes the secretary."Thank you Diane. I'll take it in the conference room. Can you ask Salesguy to bring up the latest figures after lunch please?" UbiCorp responds, stretching in his leather recliner. "Certainly, sir". There is a click as Diane cuts the line. Taking a minute to gather himself, UbiCorp adjusts his suit in the mirror before stepping out of his office and strolling down the corridor.

A moment later, UbiCorp enters the conference room, his colleagues chattering amongst themselves as he takes his seat. PRBloke offers coffee, politely. UbiCorp declines, equally as polite and takes the memo nervously pushed in front of him by SubDev. "I hope this isn't another budget increase request, SubDev" UbiCorp snaps angrily. SubDev backs away slowly, prostrating himself low beneath the steely gaze directed his way, slinking back to his chair like a wounded cur. Snorting in disgust, UbiCorp turns his attention to the little gizmo recessed into the table in front of him. "Gentlemen, RivetCounter is holding for us" he intones, "lets not keep him waiting". Instantly the voices fall silent, all papers are placed neatly back in their parent folders and every pair of eyes snap in unison towards the head of the table. Pressing the button beneath his finger, UbiCorp clears his throat.

"Hello RivetCounter, glad you could join us today. I haven't had a chance to see the latest figures yet, but I am assured that...". "Your game sucks, man" the voice on the other end cuts him off. A silence hangs in the air. UbiCorp adjust his tie and regains composure. "I'm sure you don't mean that, RivetCounter, all the market research indicated that....". "There are no death screens, no AI subs, and there are too many bugs to name in a single afternoon. In short, your game sucks, man". The silence returns. ResearchBoy looks at ResearchGirl, PRBloke frowns and consults his palm pilot, SubDev begins to sweat. UbiCorp sighs and rubs his forehead. "I'm sorry you feel that way, RivetCounter but we've been over this before. Simulations are what we call a 'Niche Game'. There isn't exactly a HUGE market for them, so our resources are limited in their development. We have to stick to a limited budget and make the deadlines we set" he explains patiently. "Not to mention the ton of historical innacuracies, the really crappy lack of anti-aliasing support and that......godawful thing that passes for TDC" RivetCounter continues, without missing a beat. Before anyone can answer, another voice chimes in over the line. "Sorry to interrupt, sir, but I have Mr.SubSimmer on the other line, he says it's urgent" Diane tinkles cheerfully. "Very well Diane, connect the three of us, if you would please" UbiCorp sighs and responds dejectedly. The secretary dutifully obliges, and clicks off the line.

"Hi guys! Arguing again?" SubSimmer teases. UbiCorp looks uncomfortable, ResearchBoy peeks down ResearchGirl's shirt, PRBloke fidgets restlessly, SubDev starts to twitch violently. "There are certain differences of opinion alright" UbiCorp admits "but we are trying to...". "Thought as much. Thats why I called. I have an idea I thought I might share with both of you" SubSimmer offers. "Please make it quick" RivetCounter demands, "I've got a LAN game soon and I need to mod my installation with the latest update of UberLeetHistoricalSubMod". "You don't get out much, do you" UbiCorp snickers. "Sunlight hurts my skin" RivetCounter shrieks, "and besides I wouldn't have to mod the game if you guys did your job right".

"Um...yeah." SubSimmer continues."Anyway, I was thinking, What if instead of whining like children all the darn time, you morons actually worked together to produce the ultimate subsim? UbiCorp, instead of asking TwitchGamer what he likes, get the research people to talk to the gamers who have more than just a passing interest in the genre. Niche game aside, theres nothing stopping you from investing the time and effort needed to make a really cracking, stable and bug free sim for RivetCounter and his pals to enjoy and to also make it fully moddable and customizable to their taste, should they so desire. So what if it doesn't appeal to a broad range, its a sim! It isn't supposed to. Add twenty bucks to the price tag and it will offset the drop in number of units sold. I dont think RivetCounter would mind shelling out the extra noodle, I'm only a casual simmer and I wouldn't mind". RivetCounter agrees, PRBloke ponders, ResearchBoy picks his nose, SubDev wets his pants.

"RivetCounter, instead of making posts on the forums complaining that the colour of the boogers up your crewmens nose isn't historically accurate, take off your tin foil hat and work with your friends to generate serious, workable ideas to incorporate into the next game. Realise you can't have absolutely everything right out of the box, and keep the wonderful mods coming as you always have. I'm sure UbiCorp would offer extensive support to cater to your yearnings for realism if you agreed to a slight hike in price" UbiCorp agrees this time, ResearchGirl and PRBloke both look disgustedly at ResearchBoy, SubDev turns blue and makes choking noises."So, everyone agrees then?" Subsimmer concludes. "Sounds feasible to me" UbiCorp nods. "Cool, man" RivetCounter concurs.

"Right then thats settled, except for one last thing......GIVE THE DARN DEVELOPERS A RAISE! They take way too much flak for their efforts, and are totally underappreciated for the awesome and innovative work they put in despite the monetary and time constraints placed on them. They deserve our thanks and a ton of stuff more so give them the support and praise they so rightly deserve, dammit! Alright I'm outta here" The line clicks as SubSimmer hangs up. SubDev can no longer contain himself. First, a gurgling noise escapes from somewhere around his neck, he then stiffens in his chair and begins to shudder and then finally collapses in a gibbering heap on the floor. The whole room falls silent. ResearchBoy looks at ResearchGirl, then they both gape at SubDev. PRBloke's eyes dart from SubDev to UbiCorp and back again. UbiCorp's mouth hangs open in astonishment, his eyes blinking incredulously. Then RivetCounter pops back in over the line. "So, uh, ResearchGirl, you doin anything this Saturday or what, man?"

[Skweetis]

Originally Posted by Karl-Heinz Jaeger

(Lots of really entertaining good stuff! Just read it above)

**insert clap and cheer emote here!**

Well written.

[Immacolata]

Originally Posted by Snowman999

Another apologist for mediocrity. My opinion here is as valid as anyones. Probably more so, as I know submarines, not just submarine sims.

It's that attitude that brought the world the Yugo.

Call it whining; I call it truth. I haven't bought the game. I may not. I followed its development for two years and was primed to get it ASAP, but these forums have done their job for me. I won't buy it until it's finished. I have also advised two friends and family it's not finished. I'll continue to do so, thanks.

Just tell me, how many of the us subs was build on time and on budget?

Mediocrity lives within budget constraints, perfectionism needs unlimited time and cash to work.