Auto TDC consistently misses (torps arrive late always) - Page 2

gnirtS · 03-26-07, 06:29 PM

No issues here with speed and manual, i measure off the map.

Can verify if you dont use manual updates only by turning position keeper on and seeing if the white X stays at the same point on the target in the attack map too.

akdavis · 03-26-07, 06:54 PM

Speed error can be factored out in the training mission, as the cruiser's speed is known (9 knots).

It is a bug. The TDC lags behind. For the training mission, shift your spread right 5 degrees (i.e. the center shot of a 3-torpedo salvo would be at 5 deg. R, the bow shot at 10 deg. R and the stern shot at 0 deg.) and you can consistently land 3 torps along the length of the ship. You will also see that microsecond updates and torpedo launch times are not quite as important as people are making them out to be, at least at this range.

I'm going to spend more time on this, but it certainly seems to be isolated to a bug with the TDC at this point.

Helen Keller · 03-26-07, 07:02 PM

Is there a way to enter all your own targeting data manually? Or do you have to use their little tool things, some times I get super close up and can just wait and shoot straight ahead like a bullet, and can't. With the messed up TDC I need some kind of simple solution...

Heck, if I'm running at 1440x900, the stadimeter crashes my game. The speed check doesn't work. And opening up the recognition manual at night makes it too bloody hard to see what I'm aiming at through the periscope...

I know the devs are working on things, but seems like we should have gotten working targetting before medals.

Koinonos · 03-26-07, 07:31 PM

Adding another 5 degrees on the spread does compensate, but here's hoping they will fix this. I am going to read the attached discussion and see which should be placed in the Sticky bug thread so (hopefully the dev's will take notice and fix it).

ColonelCuneo · 03-26-07, 07:38 PM

There is no bug! As with SH3, the auto targeting does not account for the time it takes to open the torpedo door. Try hitting "q" and wait 5 seconds before you fire. If you use external view, you can always take a quick peak to make sure the door is fully opened. As long as the target's speed and heading do not change and as long as your sub isn't turning while firing, you should hit precisely where you aimed, everytime.

Koinonos · 03-26-07, 07:42 PM

This is definitely a TDC speed calculation issue - The question is what is the best way to get this in front of the SH4 devs so they can fix it? Does Ducimus or Neal have a hotline to the dev team for consideration?

How does one file a bug against SH4 to where the devs get notified about it without trusting an UBI tech support droid that he'll notify them sooner or later?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=108874&page=2

Faamecanic · 03-26-07, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColonelCuneo

There is no bug! As with SH3, the auto targeting does not account for the time it takes to open the torpedo door. Try hitting "q" and wait 5 seconds before you fire. If you use external view, you can always take a quick peak to make sure the door is fully opened. As long as the target's speed and heading do not change and as long as your sub isn't turning while firing, you should hit precisely where you aimed, everytime.

That would be great...if we could OPEN more than one farking door at a time....

ColonelCuneo · 03-26-07, 08:02 PM

Yeah, I know. In SH3 I used to go to the conning tower and just flip all the switches before I began to fire anything.

rotoplooker · 03-26-07, 08:11 PM

I think I may have figured this out. I'm not sure what it's called but it's the little solution button (red S) that when you mouse over gives you a rating. ie poor, good, very good. When it gets to very good hit the button and it'll say 'very good locked', it unlocks your periscope but the torpedoes hit. It was late last night so I could be way off. I'm at work at the moment so if someone wants to give it a go let me know if it works.

gnirtS · 03-26-07, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColonelCuneo

There is no bug! As with SH3, the auto targeting does not account for the time it takes to open the torpedo door. Try hitting "q" and wait 5 seconds before you fire. If you use external view, you can always take a quick peak to make sure the door is fully opened. As long as the target's speed and heading do not change and as long as your sub isn't turning while firing, you should hit precisely where you aimed, everytime.

Should but dont. You hit behind.

Sceptre666 · 03-26-07, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnirtS

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColonelCuneo

There is no bug! As with SH3, the auto targeting does not account for the time it takes to open the torpedo door. Try hitting "q" and wait 5 seconds before you fire. If you use external view, you can always take a quick peak to make sure the door is fully opened. As long as the target's speed and heading do not change and as long as your sub isn't turning while firing, you should hit precisely where you aimed, everytime.

Should but dont. You hit behind.

Yeah, I can confirm, this still doesn't work.

Ducimus · 03-26-07, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Does Ducimus or Neal have a hotline to the dev team for consideration?

LOL, cross my name out of that sentence, i have just a much of a hotline as anyone else on this forum. Only difference between me and a "bilge rat" is a whole lot of hot air for post counts.

akdavis · 03-26-07, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanec

Adding another 5 degrees on the spread does compensate, but here's hoping they will fix this. I am going to read the attached discussion and see which should be placed in the Sticky bug thread so (hopefully the dev's will take notice and fix it).

5 deg. might be a bit much, as I had the AOB on the training mission cruiser off by 10-15 deg. Just turn on map contact updates and you can check the TDC solution versus the ship's actual track. Maybe more like a 3 deg R compensation, but 5 might still provide a better bracket.

There is not a TDC speed error. Enter 9 knots and it tracks the cruiser perfectly. In fact, the solution appears perfect on the map after some work, with only tiny errors for range and AOB in either direction. Nonetheless, the torpedoes fall behind the target. Nor is it lag for torpedo doors. Results are the same pre-opening the tube and inputing a bearing update and firing within in a second of eachother.

HOWEVER, I beginning to think this may only be occuring with the target moving from left to right. Loading up the navigation mission, I am able to get repeated center of mass hits on the cargo ship and tanker moving towards you on your left side (bearing tracks right to left) at mission start without compensating ahead of the ships to the left.

If someone could set up a mirror of the torpedo training mission with the Mogami moving right to left, that would be a good test. I lack the skill with the mission editor to do so.

NefariousKoel · 03-26-07, 10:59 PM

It is a TDC computing bug.
I've tried numerous techniques to fix this issue. I assure you, the dev team knows by now as this has been brought up fairly often here.

WORKAROUND:
I tried using the spread dial, but it varied too much depending on target speed and AoB.

ADD 2.5 KNOTS TO YOUR TARGET'S SPEED IN MANUAL. SEND A RANGE UPDATE BEFORE FIRING EACH TUBE and preferrably AoB update right before range update. Hell, if you can't stadimeter it, just hit the range update button.

Those of you in easy mode won't be able to do that unfortunately.

Motivational? Perhaps. But it works with regularity. Don't be afraid to use a small spread either boys and girls. Give it a try!

Doolan · 03-26-07, 11:16 PM

Confirmed from here as well, it's a bug.

I saved games before attacking both a merchant and a destroyer and tried various distances, angles, etc.

For speed estimation I used both lms_oid's tables (for AoB of 90 degrees) and a little Java command-line program I made myself this afternoon (for all other AoBs, matches lms_oid's tables pretty accurately at 90, so I assume it works well).

With both techniques (and using the range lock to correct AoB) all my fish lagged behind a bit.

At roughly 1000 yards, a five-degree spread in the direction of the ship's course did the trick. I also noticed that adding 2 / 3 knots to the speed works reasonably well.

Without this slight correction, only my bow fish hit. With it, it's three out of three or two out of three more often than not, even on fast targets (destroyers) when using the Java app.

03-26-07, 06:54 PM	#17
akdavis Samurai Navy Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 597 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Speed error can be factored out in the training mission, as the cruiser's speed is known (9 knots). It is a bug. The TDC lags behind. For the training mission, shift your spread right 5 degrees (i.e. the center shot of a 3-torpedo salvo would be at 5 deg. R, the bow shot at 10 deg. R and the stern shot at 0 deg.) and you can consistently land 3 torps along the length of the ship. You will also see that microsecond updates and torpedo launch times are not quite as important as people are making them out to be, at least at this range. I'm going to spend more time on this, but it certainly seems to be isolated to a bug with the TDC at this point. __________________ -AKD

03-26-07, 07:02 PM	#18
Helen Keller Seaman Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 33 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Is there a way to enter all your own targeting data manually? Or do you have to use their little tool things, some times I get super close up and can just wait and shoot straight ahead like a bullet, and can't. With the messed up TDC I need some kind of simple solution... Heck, if I'm running at 1440x900, the stadimeter crashes my game. The speed check doesn't work. And opening up the recognition manual at night makes it too bloody hard to see what I'm aiming at through the periscope... I know the devs are working on things, but seems like we should have gotten working targetting before medals. __________________ -- Helen Keller fights with a Braille Monitor

03-26-07, 07:31 PM	#19
Koinonos Gunner Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 99 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	It is definitely a lag in the TDC Adding another 5 degrees on the spread does compensate, but here's hoping they will fix this. I am going to read the attached discussion and see which should be placed in the Sticky bug thread so (hopefully the dev's will take notice and fix it).

03-26-07, 07:42 PM	#21
Koinonos Gunner Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 99 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Yep - This thread is another instance of the TDC bug This is definitely a TDC speed calculation issue - The question is what is the best way to get this in front of the SH4 devs so they can fix it? Does Ducimus or Neal have a hotline to the dev team for consideration? How does one file a bug against SH4 to where the devs get notified about it without trusting an UBI tech support droid that he'll notify them sooner or later? http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=108874&page=2

03-26-07, 10:59 PM	#29
NefariousKoel Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: No-good Missouri scum Posts: 1,223 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	It is a TDC computing bug. I've tried numerous techniques to fix this issue. I assure you, the dev team knows by now as this has been brought up fairly often here. WORKAROUND: I tried using the spread dial, but it varied too much depending on target speed and AoB. ADD 2.5 KNOTS TO YOUR TARGET'S SPEED IN MANUAL. SEND A RANGE UPDATE BEFORE FIRING EACH TUBE and preferrably AoB update right before range update. Hell, if you can't stadimeter it, just hit the range update button. Those of you in easy mode won't be able to do that unfortunately. Motivational? Perhaps. But it works with regularity. Don't be afraid to use a small spread either boys and girls. Give it a try! __________________ "When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Yahoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different." - Jack Handey

03-26-07, 06:29 PM	#16
gnirtS Officer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South Wales, UK Posts: 237 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	No issues here with speed and manual, i measure off the map. Can verify if you dont use manual updates only by turning position keeper on and seeing if the white X stays at the same point on the target in the attack map too.

03-26-07, 07:38 PM	#20
ColonelCuneo Nub Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	There is no bug! As with SH3, the auto targeting does not account for the time it takes to open the torpedo door. Try hitting "q" and wait 5 seconds before you fire. If you use external view, you can always take a quick peak to make sure the door is fully opened. As long as the target's speed and heading do not change and as long as your sub isn't turning while firing, you should hit precisely where you aimed, everytime.

03-26-07, 08:02 PM	#23
ColonelCuneo Nub Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Yeah, I know. In SH3 I used to go to the conning tower and just flip all the switches before I began to fire anything.

03-26-07, 08:11 PM	#24
rotoplooker Nub Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think I may have figured this out. I'm not sure what it's called but it's the little solution button (red S) that when you mouse over gives you a rating. ie poor, good, very good. When it gets to very good hit the button and it'll say 'very good locked', it unlocks your periscope but the torpedoes hit. It was late last night so I could be way off. I'm at work at the moment so if someone wants to give it a go let me know if it works.

03-26-07, 11:16 PM	#30
Doolan Torpedoman Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 112 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Confirmed from here as well, it's a bug. I saved games before attacking both a merchant and a destroyer and tried various distances, angles, etc. For speed estimation I used both lms_oid's tables (for AoB of 90 degrees) and a little Java command-line program I made myself this afternoon (for all other AoBs, matches lms_oid's tables pretty accurately at 90, so I assume it works well). With both techniques (and using the range lock to correct AoB) all my fish lagged behind a bit. At roughly 1000 yards, a five-degree spread in the direction of the ship's course did the trick. I also noticed that adding 2 / 3 knots to the speed works reasonably well. Without this slight correction, only my bow fish hit. With it, it's three out of three or two out of three more often than not, even on fast targets (destroyers) when using the Java app.