TDCs and Idiots - Page 2

heartc · 03-22-07, 04:30 AM

AOB and speed are most important. Range is the most unimportant data for the fire solution, because when the gyro (lead) angle is right, it is right enough for a target at a huge variety of ranges if AOB and speed are accurate. You are most likely missing not because of inaccurate range, but because of the AOB or speed estimates.

My English is too limited to explain further and I don't have the time either, but all that is happening when you have wrong range is basicly that your torps will impact sooner or later than expected.

Try it by making a fake targetting set up and note the green line (gyro angle) on the attack map. Then, change just range, and watch how little the gyro angle changes except for very close ranges.

RedHammer · 03-22-07, 04:47 AM

I never before used the TDC in SH games, they turn out to be too complicated, and even if I do everything absolutely correct (SH3) the torpedoes go faaar beyond the target... as for sh4, stadimeter ctd`s on me as well..

However I haven`t given up on the game, it looks good, and as soon as they fixed the stadimeter im all for getting perfect solutions big time

AMD Athlon X2 4200+ clocked to 2.5 ghz each core. 2048 mb OCZ Dual Platinum Edition. GeForce 7800 GT 256 mb. (Looks like I need a better v-card on this one.. laggs alot sometimes when ships are blowing up all around me, or if I am in the sink Yamato in harbour mission, alot of terrain rendering.)

S!

RH

joea · 03-22-07, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean_acheson

Now all that might sound lame, but it isn't something that I ever really realized in reading about this stuff, and in SH3, I always let the WO do the inputs....

For those w/o this game, or are still just pointing and shooting, it is a helluva thrill to get your first hit doing your own inputs on a moving ship....

neato!

Cool!! Dean, you know you could do the eaxct same thing on the SH3 notepad...a little circle where you had to move a dot (your sub) around a ship to input AoB into the TDC.

dean_acheson · 03-22-07, 01:14 PM

I had no idea, I never did this in SH3, and simply let the weapon's officer do all the inputs for me.

How freaking lazy I am... eh?

I'm sorry to hear about the ctd on the stadimeter thing. I haven't had this problem at all so I really don't have any ideas.

NefariousKoel · 03-22-07, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean_acheson

I had no idea, I never did this in SH3, and simply let the weapon's officer do all the inputs for me.

How freaking lazy I am... eh?

I'm sorry to hear about the ctd on the stadimeter thing. I haven't had this problem at all so I really don't have any ideas.

I've never had the stadimeter crash on me yet, either. I don't have a dual core cpu and it seems people having the crash have a dual core.

dean_acheson · 03-22-07, 01:24 PM

I am cross posting this from another thread.....

"As to guessing on the AOB, I like this, even if I ain't Dick O'Kane, who developed a really cool method to practice this, which consisted of a lazy susan, a reversered pair of binoculars, and a ship model........

a crewman would turn the lazy susan, which had the ship model on it, and the bow angles marked where o'kane couldn't see them. He would stand across the officers wardroom looking through the binocs and guess the angle.

He got to where he could figure the angle w/in a few degrees everytime..."

There is a really cool History Channel on Fleet Boats that shows O'Kane doing this.....

__________________

onnel · 03-22-07, 02:46 PM

I'm doing OK on the TDC (even with the annoying speed bug where the stopwatrch thing doesn't work, just popping up the stopwqatch and closing it when you click again), EXCEPT AOB. I just am not getting what it's supposed to represent. Yes, I did manual plots in SH3, but here I'm just not getting it. Would anyone be willing to provide osme illustrations or a really good walkthrough?

Also, does anyone else find it annoying that the TDC is not shown on the attack map? I'd love to be able to change the range (and even AOB) directly in the attack map screen rather than having to switch back and forth to the periscope to make sure I got it right!

Onnel

Forlorn · 03-22-07, 02:53 PM

Getting the speed with the chronometer is also borked, there is no speed calculated.

RedHammer · 03-22-07, 02:54 PM

Agreed

And also, not a very complicated guide, like: AOB, this means Angle of Bow and can find references for it in following books blah blah and it means +0x degrees is blah blah.

But simply just like: Angle of Bow is your position relative to the target, to do this, you must, blah blah. Thats alot better

And speed, not like: You can find references blah blah and also mentioned in law 38xb of military navy and to do this number 46x832.

But simply: Click this button (Image) and wait for X recommended seconds, then click the button again. Or, In the charts, do this and this and this, wait for a while, then do this and this, and put the X result in the Speed thingy in TDC.

That would be great for us newbies

And we sure would appreciate it

No hammering meant in this post, (The BLAHBLAH thingy.) So I am sorry if that is what it seems like.

Your friend in the Pacific

S!

RH

dean_acheson · 03-22-07, 03:31 PM

no. that was the original point of this tread.

the angle on the bow AOB is not the targets' position relative to you, it is your position (you as being the submarine) relative to the target.

you are the japanese captain, looking off the bridge, at what angle does he see YOUR submarine..... look at this chart.... (my other points being that we will all need help figuring speed

dean_acheson · 03-22-07, 03:38 PM

whoops, sorry, got that from the ever cool http://www.hnsa.org/index.htm

one of the baddest sites on the world wide internet file web thingy.....

RedHammer · 03-22-07, 05:26 PM

Read again Dean...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHammer

But simply just like: Angle of Bow is your position relative to the target, to do this, you must, blah blah. Thats alot better

:rotfl:No offense.. Sorry.

But still, how do you get a pretty much accurate AOB without wasting too much time. Let`s leave the Speed bug to the dev`s.

S!

RH

onnel · 03-22-07, 05:38 PM

Thanks Dean...leaving speed issues aside (we can do that manually on the map), how would in set the ingame AOB indictator for each of the figures in your post (figure 1, for example)?

I know what AOB is, I just don't understand it's relationship with the in game control.

Thanks!
Onnel

RedHammer · 03-22-07, 06:03 PM

Measuring speed: I dont have 3 minutes at all, simple as that, using map only ends with propostreus results as the ship has already crossed my 0. And ship often does alot of course changes, I get a miss. I need the simple way of the tdc chronometer to even be able to get a speed measurement, I am simply too newbie to be able to determine everything by just looking at a screenshot of a moving ship (that was a joke. But also alittle serious since that`s the only way I can describe the experience you guys seem to have.)

When it goes for accurate AOB measurement I am totally blank, I am just guessing, and always ends with disaster, even if I get the speed right..

I`m sorry, but just now, I feel like I cant play the game at all. It looks so great, but the speed bug and no simple degree thingy way to do in Map, just dont cut it to me. Happy to see other`s doing it with no prob tho

Frustrated

RH

dean_acheson · 03-22-07, 06:09 PM

let me say that I am far from perfect.

as to the AOB, I just sight through the periscope or the TBT on the bridge and bore sight.

slide the adjuster to the Angle on the Bow to what you think that it is.

I mean, if the ship coming is a 45 degree angle to you, and coming on for a good 90 degree shot, you set height, then aob, then guess speed and click the little red button on the botton right of the TDC to keep your adjustments which should stay good as long as the ship doesn't turn.

Right now, it is a lot of guess work. It will take time and practice to get good.

I am real good with ships that aren't moving, and getting so-so with those that ain't....

my suggestion, which is what I am still working on is the school mission with the cruiser (the torpedo mission)

you get a cruiser and get to practice shots on it.....

03-22-07, 02:53 PM	#23
Forlorn Seaman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 36 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Getting the speed with the chronometer is also borked, there is no speed calculated. __________________ use="brain" emerge -vp life

03-22-07, 04:30 AM	#16
heartc Samurai Navy Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Munich Posts: 562 Downloads: 71 Uploads: 0	AOB and speed are most important. Range is the most unimportant data for the fire solution, because when the gyro (lead) angle is right, it is right enough for a target at a huge variety of ranges if AOB and speed are accurate. You are most likely missing not because of inaccurate range, but because of the AOB or speed estimates. My English is too limited to explain further and I don't have the time either, but all that is happening when you have wrong range is basicly that your torps will impact sooner or later than expected. Try it by making a fake targetting set up and note the green line (gyro angle) on the attack map. Then, change just range, and watch how little the gyro angle changes except for very close ranges.

03-22-07, 04:47 AM	#17
RedHammer Loader Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 88 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	I never before used the TDC in SH games, they turn out to be too complicated, and even if I do everything absolutely correct (SH3) the torpedoes go faaar beyond the target... as for sh4, stadimeter ctd`s on me as well.. However I haven`t given up on the game, it looks good, and as soon as they fixed the stadimeter im all for getting perfect solutions big time AMD Athlon X2 4200+ clocked to 2.5 ghz each core. 2048 mb OCZ Dual Platinum Edition. GeForce 7800 GT 256 mb. (Looks like I need a better v-card on this one.. laggs alot sometimes when ships are blowing up all around me, or if I am in the sink Yamato in harbour mission, alot of terrain rendering.) S! RH

03-22-07, 01:14 PM	#19
dean_acheson Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Midwest - USA Posts: 1,057 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	I had no idea, I never did this in SH3, and simply let the weapon's officer do all the inputs for me. How freaking lazy I am... eh? I'm sorry to hear about the ctd on the stadimeter thing. I haven't had this problem at all so I really don't have any ideas.

03-22-07, 01:24 PM	#21
dean_acheson Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Midwest - USA Posts: 1,057 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	I am cross posting this from another thread..... "As to guessing on the AOB, I like this, even if I ain't Dick O'Kane, who developed a really cool method to practice this, which consisted of a lazy susan, a reversered pair of binoculars, and a ship model........ a crewman would turn the lazy susan, which had the ship model on it, and the bow angles marked where o'kane couldn't see them. He would stand across the officers wardroom looking through the binocs and guess the angle. He got to where he could figure the angle w/in a few degrees everytime..." There is a really cool History Channel on Fleet Boats that shows O'Kane doing this..... __________________

03-22-07, 02:46 PM	#22
onnel Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'm doing OK on the TDC (even with the annoying speed bug where the stopwatrch thing doesn't work, just popping up the stopwqatch and closing it when you click again), EXCEPT AOB. I just am not getting what it's supposed to represent. Yes, I did manual plots in SH3, but here I'm just not getting it. Would anyone be willing to provide osme illustrations or a really good walkthrough? Also, does anyone else find it annoying that the TDC is not shown on the attack map? I'd love to be able to change the range (and even AOB) directly in the attack map screen rather than having to switch back and forth to the periscope to make sure I got it right! Onnel

03-22-07, 02:54 PM	#24
RedHammer Loader Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 88 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	Agreed And also, not a very complicated guide, like: AOB, this means Angle of Bow and can find references for it in following books blah blah and it means +0x degrees is blah blah. But simply just like: Angle of Bow is your position relative to the target, to do this, you must, blah blah. Thats alot better And speed, not like: You can find references blah blah and also mentioned in law 38xb of military navy and to do this number 46x832. But simply: Click this button (Image) and wait for X recommended seconds, then click the button again. Or, In the charts, do this and this and this, wait for a while, then do this and this, and put the X result in the Speed thingy in TDC. That would be great for us newbies And we sure would appreciate it No hammering meant in this post, (The BLAHBLAH thingy.) So I am sorry if that is what it seems like. Your friend in the Pacific S! RH

03-22-07, 03:31 PM	#25
dean_acheson Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Midwest - USA Posts: 1,057 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	no. that was the original point of this tread. the angle on the bow AOB is not the targets' position relative to you, it is your position (you as being the submarine) relative to the target. you are the japanese captain, looking off the bridge, at what angle does he see YOUR submarine..... look at this chart.... (my other points being that we will all need help figuring speed

03-22-07, 03:38 PM	#26
dean_acheson Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Midwest - USA Posts: 1,057 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	whoops, sorry, got that from the ever cool http://www.hnsa.org/index.htm one of the baddest sites on the world wide internet file web thingy.....

03-22-07, 05:38 PM	#28
onnel Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thanks Dean...leaving speed issues aside (we can do that manually on the map), how would in set the ingame AOB indictator for each of the figures in your post (figure 1, for example)? I know what AOB is, I just don't understand it's relationship with the in game control. Thanks! Onnel

03-22-07, 06:03 PM	#29
RedHammer Loader Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 88 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	Measuring speed: I dont have 3 minutes at all, simple as that, using map only ends with propostreus results as the ship has already crossed my 0. And ship often does alot of course changes, I get a miss. I need the simple way of the tdc chronometer to even be able to get a speed measurement, I am simply too newbie to be able to determine everything by just looking at a screenshot of a moving ship (that was a joke. But also alittle serious since that`s the only way I can describe the experience you guys seem to have.) When it goes for accurate AOB measurement I am totally blank, I am just guessing, and always ends with disaster, even if I get the speed right.. I`m sorry, but just now, I feel like I cant play the game at all. It looks so great, but the speed bug and no simple degree thingy way to do in Map, just dont cut it to me. Happy to see other`s doing it with no prob tho Frustrated RH

03-22-07, 06:09 PM	#30
dean_acheson Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Midwest - USA Posts: 1,057 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	let me say that I am far from perfect. as to the AOB, I just sight through the periscope or the TBT on the bridge and bore sight. slide the adjuster to the Angle on the Bow to what you think that it is. I mean, if the ship coming is a 45 degree angle to you, and coming on for a good 90 degree shot, you set height, then aob, then guess speed and click the little red button on the botton right of the TDC to keep your adjustments which should stay good as long as the ship doesn't turn. Right now, it is a lot of guess work. It will take time and practice to get good. I am real good with ships that aren't moving, and getting so-so with those that ain't.... my suggestion, which is what I am still working on is the school mission with the cruiser (the torpedo mission) you get a cruiser and get to practice shots on it.....