Lights Out for your bulb

[Letum]

Well, yes...if people where wearing underpants that put a unnecessary strain on the environment and national powersuplys then they should be banned.

I'm impressed with these new EU ideas. Things like this work much better if everyone in Europe does it because it speeds up the changeover for the E.S.Light factories, which means cheaper bulbs!

It's a example of cooperation between nations that the world can follow.

The "us and them" attitude some people have towards the EU is arrogant and counterproductive. England is a part of the EU's decision making, we do say yes and no about propositions.

[TteFAboB]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

Thats ridiculous. Its like banning sweets and carbonated drinks in schools, they're basically telling us what we can and cant spend our money on.

They'll be telling us what kind of underpants to wear next.

Who are you kidding, fool. You don't know what's best for you, I do. My authority comes from my self-righteous scientificist lemming half-brain, together with my slave's moral.

Now sit down before I decide to tell you what you can and can't complain about.

[Penelope_Grey]

energy efficient bulbs are by far the way to go, I love em. If you buy a decent quality one it will work and work and work. The one in my brothers bedroom has been going for so long now, you must be talking years! He spends a fair amount of time there too, reading and playing PS2 etc.

I can see STEED's point about Europe, but really we should be thankful that somebody is willing to take responsibility and cut energy consumption. Because our own government clearly didn't have the stones to do it themselves maybe because they are worried about losing votes? Who knows!?

I shall be telling my mother and father, energy saver bulbs are the ticket!

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

Who are you kidding, fool. You don't know what's best for you, I do. My authority comes from my self-righteous scientificist lemming half-brain, together with my slave's moral.

Now sit down before I decide to tell you what you can and can't complain about.

Lemming half-brain? So if I waved this rainbow umbrella infront of you, you'd jump off a cliff with it in an amusing and stress relieving fashion?

[The Avon Lady]

I'm all for it.

Ban the bulb!

[Linton]

I do not think anybody has come out with a replacement candle bulb yet>you also cannot use any of these new bulbs with a dimmer.

[Skybird]

It's nonsens, a political hyperactivism meant to display that they are "concerned", that "they do something", and that the ordinary guy is given the opportunity "to do something for the environment". Unfortunately I have already heared and seen too many exemplary calculation in german TV and radio saying that the ammount of energy being saved this way is almost meaningless in the general calculation concerning effects for the climate.

I also hate the light these new bulbs make, it has more blue and less red and looks like Neon light. This is okay in bureaus, cellars, working areas, but at home it is absolutely "ungemütlich", hard, harsh and cold. That's the main argument for me to not buy these things so far. Also, the human biorythm is programmed to expect changing ligh conditions by the end of the day (sunset), which means an increase of red in sunlight, and darker light conditions. This effects the organism's switching over from activity to resting mode. And light conditions can mess that up severly. I expect raise in sleeping problems and other health or psychological issues. Many variables of modern life already do effect our posyche or health in this or that way.

And finally, there are these alternative daylight lamps (have nothing to do with energy saving bulbs) which also create brighter, whiter light that mimics daylight. But the trick is not to light punctually by these lamps, but to flood the environment you are experiencing with your eyes completely, else most testing subjects perceive these lamps's light as unnatural in contrast.

No eneryg saving bulbs for me as long as they do not succeed in copying the classical bulb's more yellow, warmer, "gemütlicher" light. My living space is not the last about feeling home, feeling well and having "Gemütlichkeit". Icy-cold hard light I do not accept in here. when a prohibition becomes valid, I will buy a stock of 100 or 200 classical bulbs, which will give me quite some years of "surviving". Or switch to Halogen ligh completely, as long as that does not become forbidden, too.

Politicians. Can't somebody sink them in a deep black hole, dammit? Kinderkacke. There are much more severe problems concerning energy and environment than this.

In German:
http://www.welt.de/politik/article75...lt_retten.html

[ASWnut101]

I got one of those squiggly bulbs, and STEED, I think you are just getting ripped off. Mine is four years old and still has it's original, bright-brightness. You need these to look at it:

[STEED]

I got my exchange and it's working alright for now.

[Torpedo Fodder]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I also hate the light these new bulbs make, it has more blue and less red and looks like Neon light. This is okay in bureaus, cellars, working areas, but at home it is absolutely "ungemütlich", hard, harsh and cold. That's the main argument for me to not buy these things so far.

I don't know what kinds of CFLs are availabe in Europe, but over here we can easily find models that are tuned to produce a "colour temperature" of around 2700K (a yellowish-white glow about the same as a regular filament bulb; close enough that I can't tell the difference if the bulb is in an enclosed fixture). I fully agree that the bluish-white ones are too harsh for most indoor fixtures, which is why I only use them outside, and if those were the only colour availabe I doubt I'd be as keen on CFLs as I am.

Originally Posted by Linton

I do not think anybody has come out with a replacement candle bulb yet>you also cannot use any of these new bulbs with a dimmer.

I know there are models out there that are made for use in dimmer fixtures, although I havn't been able to find any in my area. One complaint against the dimmer CFLs though is that when dimmed they still have the same colour temperature (thus appearaing a dull yellowish-grey rather than orange) as they do when fully lit.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Skybird

It's nonsens, a political hyperactivism meant to display that they are "concerned", that "they do something", and that the ordinary guy is given the opportunity "to do something for the environment".

I'm surprised by your negative attitude.

To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, a watt saved is a watt earned.

Plain and simple, one of these bulbs uses about a third of the electricity of its incandescent equivalent. Good for the purse and pocket, too.

And it also promotes awareness of the issue.

[XabbaRus]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

Thats ridiculous. Its like banning sweets and carbonated drinks in schools, they're basically telling us what we can and cant spend our money on.

They'll be telling us what kind of underpants to wear next.

Well if the public are too stupid to stop their kids spending money on them at lunchtime then what choice have the government got?

The nation can't afford to have unhealtyh overweight kids who then turn into unhealthy overweight adults who drain more on the taxpayer than what they put in.

If parents actually taught their kids how to eat healthily and themselves asked the schools to remove the vending machines then legislation wouldn't be needed.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

And it also promotes awareness of the issue.

Which probably is the only intention of it all.

during the oil crisis in the early 70s, they had car-free (obligatory) sundays in Germany. It was not about saving oil consummation. It was not about that there was no oil left. Reserves were full. The public simply was not aware there was a critical developement, and so they had the car-free sunday to create a consequence that actually could be felt. It did nothing constructive beyond that.

but serious: anybody thinkikn g people in europe do not already know? We get flooded with environment-related news day in day out. It is en vogue. So, I think the comparison to the the oil crisis does not work. People seem to think that hybrid cars and energy saving lamps alone will save the world. CO2 is discussed as if it is the only decisisce factor, but when you say "methane", they ask "hu, what you say, what is that?". BS. there are so much more energy-critical variables, mainly in the field of transportation, aircraft, powerplants and heavy industry, were the real gains must be won. Compared to that, energy being used on private light bulbs is almost unimportant. As I said, there were repeatedly model calculations given on TV these days showing that the impact of energy-saves gained from changing the bulbs is close to unimportant. No, I do not have them recorded on VHS...

So the real intention probably is to satisfy the call of the people for "actions", and save the interests of the industry from that action. It is the chnace of politicians to presnet themselves in the role of their lifes: the one who cares, the one who acts, the one who manages the crisis. They just had their climate summit, -20% in 13 years, they said, concerning emissions. The values themselves are unimpressive. But they are only intention anyway. The real problems start now, because now they must negotiate whom has to save how much. They will already rub their heads bloody about nuclear energy, I'm sure. You know what became of these emission certificates? They were overpriced, to propagate them, and were given away for free in too great numbers. They havbe seen a constant fall in value, for these reasons. Today, they are less than 3% of their original value. Result: nobody in the industry cares anymore for trading them, economically they have become simply uninteresting. The exoistence of the system itself - nevertheless still bluffs the public. But it is a complete failure so far.

In Germany, we go freaky about garbage sorting. We have a "yellow sack" for stuff like plastic bags, yoghurt pots, plastic bottles, styropore that can be recycled. We have a "brown ton" for organic garbage. And a "blue ton" for paper. and a "green container" for glass. And a "grey ton" for rest garbage.

That is nice and well, and makes sense concerning paper and glass. Concerning the brown ton with organic waste, arguments pro and con alraedy can get exchanged. But the real laugh is about the yellow sack, which gets filled the fastest in an ordinary household. Because at the sorting-centre, the pieces that are attractive for recylcers (big, huge items) get sorted out and enter recycling. But these make only for less than 5% of the overall weight-volume (? Gewichtsvolumen) - the remaining 95% that citizens so proudly and so much aware of the environment have sorted before - then get transported to the ordinary waste burning facilities envertheless, and joimn the content of the empötied grey tons (rest garbage, ordinary waste). Most people do not know this, and politicians are not eager to point finger at this. The public conscousness is satisfied. That is the intention of it all.

It'S about pleasing the public and giving Peter and Paul the good feeling that the party cares. Maybe you catch their vote by that, who knows. The things that must be adressed and changed are of a far greater scale and level than just energy-saving light bulbs.

Think of that the next time you buy a mega-power-supply or a very hungry gfx-board for your PC, or a plasma-TV that easily eats up all what you have saved in watts by using new bulbs. Think of that the next time you (as a for example Northern european) think you need to buy fruits in winter that needs to get transported from North Africa, or as a good economist you think it is clever if german butter gets sold in Ireland and Irish butter gets sold in Germany, and the Danish think they must have Spanish tomatoes and the Germany want their potatoes from Egypt instead of taking them from their own farms. Korean refrigerators in europe and "made in the EU" transported to Asia not to mention. Or when you board an airliner for your holiday trip around the world. Or picking a plane for even a short hop where train still would be available, and reasonable. And people who take a car to drive 100 m to the baker, with a greenpeace-sticker on the car, are not to be taken serious. They are fools.

[joea]

Right, so let's go for de-industrialisation then.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by joea

Right, so let's go for de-industrialisation then.

Quatsch, who said that? Meaningless exaggerations will not help us a bit. Only really substantial and most drastical actions will help us not to prevent, put to soften a bit the consequences we will experience from climate change, and shortening ressources, and then it still will become intense enough. Car-free days and energy saving bulbs in private households are populistic campaigns only, aiming at distracting people from the grim truth, relieving the pressure public opinion puts onto the industry consumers, coal and oil industry, transportation and airliner business, allowing politicians to polish their profile, and keeping up communal and social control by hiding that we need to implement much, much harsher actions that probbaly would lead to conflicts in the widest meaning within our societies. This bulb issue is not more than one drop of water on a hot stone. What we need is a tankload, so to speak.