First experience with manual navigation in GWX

[melnibonian]

Originally Posted by Morts

errm, thanks ive already got GWX but i mean something to make navigating harder

Ooopssss Sorry about that

[Morts]

Originally Posted by melnibonian

Ooopssss Sorry about that

:rotfl: :rotfl: no problem

[mikaelanderlund]

Hi Corsair,

How and in which file do you change the zoom level?

Mikael

[johan_d]

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/

To get asronomical data, the reference book. Now, just a sextant, and then your set!

[Kumando]

Originally Posted by Corsair

As I always played the game as a simulation for the purpose of immersion in the era, I have been since a long time bothered by the navigation system in SH3. I have a long time real experience at sea, and SH3 replicates modern GPS navigation. Your position is shown in real time as it would be on the screen of a GPS-map, you have the possibility of defining waypoints like you would do on a GPS. You just need to think then that your GPS data is linked to youe autopilot, and you have it.
I started sailing at a time when all this electronic didn't exist and the only help we had was radio-goniometry, a system which allows you to find the bearing of a radio beacon sending a morse letter signal. No need to say it was just a help and was far from precise...
After reading a few threads on this forum, and watching "Dantenoc's hardcore navigation" video on You Tube, I decided to have a go at it on my next GWX patrol in the Med (base Salamis). Distances are short, there are many islands and the weather should be better than in North Atlantic ( was a little wrong there as we will see...) As over the time I slowly came to playing 100% real, this was an interesting new challenge.

How I worked at it :

First step was to change the zoom level at which icons are drawn, so that the sub icon only appears at higher zoom level (20000m/pixel) so that the only information I can get is that I am somewhere in the Med. Then replace the bearing overlay by a transparent picture for close zoom up views. Of course no map contact update, so that sound bearings don't give my position on the map, and verboten to use the waypoint plotting tool, as the line would also give away the position. The result is simple : no more sub icon on the map...

Without electronics, they are two basic way of navigating : coastal navigation when you can see land and find your position by taking bearings on special features (lighthouse, castles, churches, watertowers, etc...) and triangle your position. This is easier IRL because in SH3 there are few land features. However, it was enough for hopping from one island to the other out of Salamis until past the east end of Kreta.
Once you don't see land anymore, you relied at this time on a chrono watch for longitude and a sextant. A sextant is basically used to measure angles of the sun or stars from the horizon at certain times and refer to tables and a little calculation to give your latitude.
The idea there is that your navigator does the job, but you need a proper sight to be able to have a precise position. The times I used were : sunrise (the moment the base of the sun touches the horizon - angle 0) noon (highest angle) sundown (same moment as sunrise) midnight (Polar star).

Whenever at this precise time I was surfaced and able to see the sun or the star (easy to find, just look north and you find the Chariot constellation, the polar star is the front "horse") my navigator was able to give a position. This was simulated by making a Ctrl-click on the map (thus bringing the sub at the cursor's spot) at max zoom in view (for precision) and mark it. To remember later what mark is what, either use paper and write "Mark 1 : Nov 7 07:30" or like I did use the ruler tool to draw a line 7.3 km long near the mark (or 7.5 if you want to work with hour fractions)
Knowing where you want to go, just draw a line from the mark with the ruler on compass mode, this gives you heading. You then just give the heading order thru the compass ( this is where I appreciated the precise 6 dials simfeeling compass...)
Two possible problems : you can't see it because of clouds or you are forced to submerge at this time because of bad company...

Remark : In SH3 your qualified helmsmen have trouble keeping the boat straight on a heading when surfaced. The waves drift the boat from course and the guys don't always bring it back. From this experience, I found the angle to the wind having an influence - the more crosswind, the more drift , less drift when you head straight into the wind. The heavier the wind, the more drift.
So if you want to be precise in your nav, you need to be careful with TC while surfaced - I used max 64 - and keep an eye on the compass to manually bring the boat on course from time to time.
Happily, the problem disappears when submerged and the boat stays on course for hours and hours.

Using this method on the first 10 days of patrol, I never drifted more than 3 km from my estimated position, which is good enough if you don't make course too close to land.

My problem there was that in the said 10 days I had patrolled my grid and patrolled the coastal route between Alexandria and Tobruk without any contact... Nothing, nichts, nada... empty sea although as usual I had every 3 hours a sound check with my personal mark 1 ears... At that point decided to sail towards the bottleneck triangle Sicily - Malta - Lampedusa. As soon as I got there, guess what : Rain, 15m/s heavy wind, rough sea, heavy fog and covered skies... Scotland in the Med...
Two direct implications : no attacks possible and no sun/stellar navigation anymore.
Switch to estimated positions from speed/time/heading and lot of drawings on the map... Of course submerged 50m and surface for reloading only. (discovered that GWX reload times were lot shorter than NYGM for same submerged times, in this situation it was welcome...)
Of course as soon as attacks were not possible anymore, tons of sound contacts : merchants, warships to and from Malta, even passing directly overhead... (never been detected, so GWX destroyers are not so uber when you are careful : every time a warship coming my way, went down 90 m silent running 2 knots)
After 3 days of "drawing circles in the water", I got frustrated... My navigation experience told me the best was to stay in deep waters away from land until weather cleared, but I was there to push the experiment in SH3.

I decided I would try to rejoin Lampedusa harbour where I would wait for better times. Problem : bad weather and 300m visibility. So if I really had to, what strategy would I use in real life ? Answer came loud and clear : use the depth features to confirm position. The depth are not precisely shown in SH3 like on real maps, but at least you can tell when it should go up or down. I noticed west of Lampedusa an underwater hill and headed that way (not knowing how precise my position was after 3 days of estimate only...
Heading 200° here we go... every hour, a hydrophone check to verify no nasty neighbour, then a ping from echolot. + 1000m for a while then 356m, 245m, 216m...
Switch to every half hour. 75m, 60m... switch to every 15 minutes : 40m, 35m...
Oops, may be heading directly inland ? Surface, ahead 2/3, can barely see front of the sub... it's night... heart beats a little faster... 30m... then suddenly : 35m, 45m...
Alleluia, we passed just about where we wanted, Lampedusa must be East of us. Heading 110° to be safe, submerged 2 knts to wait for daylight...
9:30 hrs : Contact, sound, warship slow moving away long distance.
Warship slow : Lampedusa must have a Flottenbegleiter or what's his name in Italian. Crew starts dreaming of Chianti and pizzas.. OK it goes to my right, then back to left. Periscope check : sea has calmed down, but fog still there...
All stop, ask sonar man to track the warship.... moving away 350, 340, then suddenly 335 closing, 340 closing... means only one thing : she's made her turnaround in port and heads out again. Surface, heading to the turning point. Suddenly the 2 lighthouses through the fog : we made it !!! Coming in the harbour, we see burning ships : must have been an air raid from Malta...

Conclusion : Without never seeing my sub icon I was able to navigate around with acceptable precision and also able to rejoin a port in the worst conditions (rough weather - no visibility) using only techniques of the time period.
Although I didn't fire one round or one torp in 13 days, it was never boring.
I guess most people will think this way of playing is definitely "too much". For those interested in the experience I would say : try it, it brings a new dimension to the simulation side. For me, no question, it's adopted...

I will later post on how I did plotting an attack sequence with no icon on the map if I get a chance of shooting at something during this patrol...

I might give it a try, but how do i exactly remove the sub icon from the map and also that bearing circle around it? In what folders do i have to remove the images?Another thing Dantenoc uses a chart of kms traveled at a determinated speed when its not possible to fix your position from the sun due to bad weather i find that way more easy than the echolot, my question does that chart is included in GWX or is another mod?

[Kumando]

I found the way of removing the icon:

Open the program files\silenthunteriii\data\menu\cfg directory and edit the maps.cfg file. Change the settings on the navigation map to:

[Map0]
MapID=Navigation_map
Position=0,0
Resolution=1024,656
MajorSqrs=4,2.4
MinorSqrs=5,5
PixPerUnit=50
ZoomLevels=1,2,5,10,20,50,100,200,500,1000,2000,40 00,7000,10000,20000,40000; meters per pixel
InitialZoom=20000;originalmente 500
SymbolZoom=20000;units are drawn as symbols from this zoom up originalmente 10
GroupsZoom=40000;units are drawn in groups from this zoom up originalmente 100
CityZoom=10000;city names are displayed from this zoom down
KriegZoom=2000;krieg labels are separated displayed from this zoom up
HarborZoom=50;harbors will be displayed from this zoom up

Having done so, open the program files\ubisoft\silenthunteriii\data\submarine folder, then choose the folder of your favorite sub, and edit the NSS_UboatXX_shp.TGA file, making it into something invisible (that's to say, just make the whole picture a transparent blank).

Im going to try but i think ploting intercept courses without the sub icon will prove to be tricky:hmm:.

[Corsair]

Thks Kumando I was just about to give the same info...

The charts giving the kms distance from speed/time are located in GWX on the map screen top left.
4 charts there : General map with convoy routes, maps of friendly bases showing subnets and minefields, then the 2 distance charts (Seite 1 and Seite 2)
Personnally I find it faster to use a pocket calculator than to slide out the charts, as you often have to compute hours and minutes...
I only used the echolot like I would have done IRL to confirm my estimated position.

PS : I left the initial zoom at 500. I found the link to download the transparent file on a thread in this forum, should still be there. Otherwise can mail it to interested people.

ADVICE TO ALL KALEUNS IN THE MED :

If for some reason you have to make a stop in Lampedusa, plse note there is a huge subnet across most of the harbour. Do not try to head directly in the harbour from the south, the two free channels are located near the lighthouses East and West of the entrance. Depending from which side you come, plan a route to the nearest lighthouse and stay close to come in...

I just discovered this the hard way going out (fortunately was going slow so not much damage) I didn't notice in coming in, because of the night and the heavy fog I went straight for the lighthouse...

[Corsair]

Originally Posted by johan_d

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/

To get asronomical data, the reference book. Now, just a sextant, and then your set!

I have done it enough in real life sailing on open seas before the Navsat and the GPS. Navigator has always been my favourite job on sailing boats.

[Corsair]

Originally Posted by Morts

could anyone give me a link for this mod?
thanks

There is no mod, you have to do the job yourself and get your hands dirty...

[Kumando]

Heres the link to download the file http://files.filefront.com/NSS_Uboat.../fileinfo.html

[Corsair]

Thks mate, didn't know anymore where it was..

[Morts]

Originally Posted by Corsair

There is no mod, you have to do the job yourself and get your hands dirty...

okay, haha

problem is even my grandma is better than me when it comes to messing around with files

[Kumando]

Originally Posted by Corsair

Thks mate, didn't know anymore where it was..

No problem friend, i was a little renitent in the begining but after i saw Dantenocs video i changed my mind and have to at least try it out. And you are rigth in one thing, when we are surfing in tc and nothing it is happening its really boring now we have one more challenge to keep us less bored on our mission while travelling.

[Corsair]

Originally Posted by Kumando

No problem friend, i was a little renitent in the begining but after i saw Dantenocs video i changed my mind and have to at least try it out. And you are rigth in one thing, when we are surfing in tc and nothing it is happening its really boring now we have one more challenge to keep us less bored on our mission while travelling.

Costs nothing to give it a try... if you don't like it, just forget it...

I can tell you that trying to find this f... harbour in the middle of the night with fog so thick I could see nothing and not knowing precisely where I was gave me the same chills as being depthcharged for a couple of hours...

[Kumando]

Corsair if one has land on sight (i mean you can see land from your binoculars) can we simulate that the navigator would be able to fix your position using the ctrl click?