No AI subs... Why not player subs?

Caseck · 12-19-06, 02:48 PM

Just curious why, if SH3 already had a dynamic campaign, AND multiplayer as an option, couldn't they graft the multiplayer into the dynamic campaign and make a DYNAMIC MULTIPLAYER CAMPAIGN?

Sure, there's a lot of particulars. But if they can't do AI subs, why not somehow figure a way people could do a dynamic campaign together?

(Plus it'd be even cooler with the player-run convoys and I-class IJN subs...)

Well anyway, it'd be cool.

CCIP · 12-19-06, 02:54 PM

I think the problem is time compression. How do you propose dealing with time compression in the multiplayer environment?

Seriously, I'll give a medal to anyone who manages to solve this question. Unfortunately I don't think any game developer has come up with an answer so far.

Caseck · 12-19-06, 03:16 PM

Keep it normal and allow the other players not involved in a combat to either be an observer, or fly or order around some kind of allied aircraft or somethin'.

Of course, opposing players could run the convoy AI too.

Something like that wouldn't be too bad.

I know it's pie in the sky for SH4, but SH4+ or SH5...

AJ! · 12-19-06, 04:49 PM

lol one person can use it at a time. I can imagin someones time compressed sub zooming by everyone else at mach 3

Schatten · 12-19-06, 06:59 PM

If you kept it at normal TC then you'd have to get pagers for everyone so they could run home from work every other Tuesday because someone spotted something. I don't think that would work.

The only way I can see an MP campaign working at all would be a coding nightmare. Play the game normally as you would in a regular campaign along with TC and all of that for each individual sub. Allow players to send radio reports back and forth (just to make it more interesting make them tap morse) whenever they want but only let people receive them when their relative time is the same as the radio message's send time. Then if 2 or more boats happen to arrive within a set range of one another kick it down to normal time so they can operate together. Or alternatively allow the first sub on the scene to control TC in the "bubble" until a minimum allowable range is reached then kick it back to normal time. That would be a royal pain in the posterior and I can think of several ways right off the bat to "break" it. But it's the only way I can think of to allow multiple subs to work together in an MP campaign environment.

The other way I could think to do MP would be to have more than one person on a single sub and then divide their duties like the regular AI officers you get. Weapons officer would handle that but not have access to the Radio, Nav would handle that but not have access to torpedos, etc. The Captain would have repeaters for everything but if a station is manned then the officer in charge of that station has to do all of the control inputs, and the Captain would have the TC key. The one station I'd let anyone man would be the guns, because guns are just fun.

Unfortunately I don't see any real way to do an MP campaign that wouldn't be more complex to code than the benefit you'd get from it. At least not realtime, if there were a program that would collect and report data from multiple log files in realtime to make it "seem" like everyone's out there in the Pacific together then that would be cool, but you probably would never be able to run into a buddy's boat and run alongside flashing signal lamps at one another.

In flight sims you can do coop campaigns because the time frame is usually all in the matter of a day at most, with subs you're talking months for a long mission.

Tronics · 12-20-06, 02:08 AM

Reverse the NWN2 time coding.

In Never Winter Nights and NeverWinter Nights 2 players can pause the game in MP, when you do this time stops. There used to be a spell in the first NWN for sorcerers called Timestop, but the sorcerer who casted it was immune from the pausing effect and could move around and interact with things.

Solution to TC in SH3 and SHIV. Put all player subs in a 'party' if you will and make TC effect everyone at the same time.

However all this processing would possibly kill whoever was the server.

12-19-06, 02:48 PM	#1
Caseck Torpedoman Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: CONUS Posts: 116 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	No AI subs... Why not player subs? Just curious why, if SH3 already had a dynamic campaign, AND multiplayer as an option, couldn't they graft the multiplayer into the dynamic campaign and make a DYNAMIC MULTIPLAYER CAMPAIGN? Sure, there's a lot of particulars. But if they can't do AI subs, why not somehow figure a way people could do a dynamic campaign together? (Plus it'd be even cooler with the player-run convoys and I-class IJN subs...) Well anyway, it'd be cool.

12-19-06, 02:54 PM	#2
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I think the problem is time compression. How do you propose dealing with time compression in the multiplayer environment? Seriously, I'll give a medal to anyone who manages to solve this question. Unfortunately I don't think any game developer has come up with an answer so far. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

12-19-06, 04:49 PM	#4
AJ! Commodore Join Date: May 2006 Location: That lil island above france Posts: 601 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	lol one person can use it at a time. I can imagin someones time compressed sub zooming by everyone else at mach 3 __________________

12-19-06, 03:16 PM	#3
Caseck Torpedoman Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: CONUS Posts: 116 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Keep it normal and allow the other players not involved in a combat to either be an observer, or fly or order around some kind of allied aircraft or somethin'. Of course, opposing players could run the convoy AI too. Something like that wouldn't be too bad. I know it's pie in the sky for SH4, but SH4+ or SH5...

12-19-06, 06:59 PM	#5
Schatten Engineer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 212 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	If you kept it at normal TC then you'd have to get pagers for everyone so they could run home from work every other Tuesday because someone spotted something. I don't think that would work. The only way I can see an MP campaign working at all would be a coding nightmare. Play the game normally as you would in a regular campaign along with TC and all of that for each individual sub. Allow players to send radio reports back and forth (just to make it more interesting make them tap morse) whenever they want but only let people receive them when their relative time is the same as the radio message's send time. Then if 2 or more boats happen to arrive within a set range of one another kick it down to normal time so they can operate together. Or alternatively allow the first sub on the scene to control TC in the "bubble" until a minimum allowable range is reached then kick it back to normal time. That would be a royal pain in the posterior and I can think of several ways right off the bat to "break" it. But it's the only way I can think of to allow multiple subs to work together in an MP campaign environment. The other way I could think to do MP would be to have more than one person on a single sub and then divide their duties like the regular AI officers you get. Weapons officer would handle that but not have access to the Radio, Nav would handle that but not have access to torpedos, etc. The Captain would have repeaters for everything but if a station is manned then the officer in charge of that station has to do all of the control inputs, and the Captain would have the TC key. The one station I'd let anyone man would be the guns, because guns are just fun. Unfortunately I don't see any real way to do an MP campaign that wouldn't be more complex to code than the benefit you'd get from it. At least not realtime, if there were a program that would collect and report data from multiple log files in realtime to make it "seem" like everyone's out there in the Pacific together then that would be cool, but you probably would never be able to run into a buddy's boat and run alongside flashing signal lamps at one another. In flight sims you can do coop campaigns because the time frame is usually all in the matter of a day at most, with subs you're talking months for a long mission.

12-20-06, 02:08 AM	#6
Tronics A-ganger Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 78 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Reverse the NWN2 time coding. In Never Winter Nights and NeverWinter Nights 2 players can pause the game in MP, when you do this time stops. There used to be a spell in the first NWN for sorcerers called Timestop, but the sorcerer who casted it was immune from the pausing effect and could move around and interact with things. Solution to TC in SH3 and SHIV. Put all player subs in a 'party' if you will and make TC effect everyone at the same time. However all this processing would possibly kill whoever was the server.