UCLA student tasered

[VON_CAPO]

Originally Posted by sonar732

being a citizen who failed to observe authority.

I understand that american people are well trained to obey "authority" (no offense intended); but any authority vanish as smoke when the deputies cross the line between the right and the wrong.

Also, I think you see this under the optic of the military, and this is a academical ambit, where freedom and respect rules.

This kind of abuse is non sense into a university.

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

I understand that american people are well trained to obey "authority" (no offense intended); but any authority vanish as smoke when the deputies cross the line between the right and the wrong.

Also, I think you see this under the optic of the military, and this is a academical ambit, where freedom and respect rules.

This kind of abuse is non sense into a university.

You blew your own comment about "respect" out of the water as your "client" didn't respect the order to get up. Are you a lawyer for the ACLU? :rotfl:

EDIT: I remember signing forms when I went to college regarding the "respect" of the University Security Officers and that I had to listen to them when given an order.

[VON_CAPO]

Originally Posted by sonar732

You blew your own comment about "respect" out of the water as your "client" didn't respect the order to get up. Are you a lawyer for the ACLU? :rotfl::rotfl:

You are demonstrating that you have no idea about the academic community and how it thinks.

About respect: do not confuse "respect to the rules" with "respect to the ambit"
Because of a simple misconduct, the victim was electrocuted and bullied many times.

If I know my peers, it will be a huge cluster of witnesses in court in a near future.
And without any doubt, those bumpkins will have what they deserve.

[sonar732]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[August]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

I understand that american people are well trained to obey "authority" (no offense intended); but any authority vanish as smoke when the deputies cross the line between the right and the wrong.

Also, I think you see this under the optic of the military, and this is a academical ambit, where freedom and respect rules.

This kind of abuse is non sense into a university.

Actually I've found Europeans to be far more "trained to obey authority" than any similar group of Americans.

[VON_CAPO]

Originally Posted by sonar732

Validating an attack by mob action isn't going to solve anything either. I'm sure that there will be a typical lawsuit filled by liberal organizations and his family...I hope his parents have the "authority" to tell him he should've listened to the sworn officers.

If everything runs good, those sworn officers will be users of "Food Stamp" coupons, for a long long time.

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

If everything runs good, those sworn officers will be users of "Food Stamp" coupons, for a long long time.

So now you are putting down the officers in that they will be using Food Stamps after going to court? The court will more than likely see this video, see the student in hand cuffs and disobeying orders as the officers are attempting to pick him up and move him. You are truely a liberal minded individual in that the thinking is "It wasn't my fault...it's someone elses and going to the far left of your "religion" conversation that people are responsible for their own actions.

[StdDev]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

If everything runs good, those sworn officers will be users of "Food Stamp" coupons, for a long long time.

That depends on if the officers were "cadets" or full on "campus police"..
The "Full on Campus Police" are actual police officers just like LAPD or whatever city you want to name.. they will probably get an incident report in their file.. perhaps some "counceling" after which they will be free to go charge up their taserz...
If the officers involved (the tazing officers) were cadets.. I'm pretty sure that their contract will not be renewed.

Universities are businesses.. if they piss off the student population their enrollment suffers (not really likely at UCLA but the admin must keep up appearances). The fact is.. the whole situation could have been avoided if the student had just used a bit more sense and not been so antagonistic towards the police.
Dont get me wrong.. I definately think the repeated tazing was excessive, ... but so was the students attitude.

[TteFAboB]

EDIT: To prevent further misunderstanding I will abide by VON_CAPO's rule book and add that this post has: (no offense intended)

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

(...)this is a academical ambit, where freedom and respect rules.

Hypocrite.

In your other thread you've shown your contempt for freedom and respect for religion. You are for the freedom that suits you, for the respect that suits you. Those who do not agree or think like you get neither.

Go speak for freedom and respect in Teheran univesity, go speak against respect for authority in China where torture and abuse is rampant, or are you too much of a coward? You know how to pick your fights and they're always the easy ones, without further consequences and certainly without any pain, you can talk against the USA and Americans all day long and nothing happens because nobody cares, even though you've been enjoyning the benefits of America for how long now? Also, you talk about attacking the guards as part of a mob and going to court in a cluster of peers, obviously you can only feel comfortable and safe to act in a large group. I guess then that if you were this lone student without a group you'd just kneel on the floor and beg "I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy! I'll do whatever you say sir!". Good to know you are free to form and participate in these groups in the USA, isn't it? Unlike what happened many times all across Europe, from Portugal to Russia, where groups were denied the freedom to gather.

[VON_CAPO]

Originally Posted by StdDev

Universities are businesses.. if they piss off the student population their enrollment suffers (not really likely at UCLA but the admin must keep up appearances).

I agree, and after the public video, we can bet that the administration is running into a nightmare.

Originally Posted by StdDev

The fact is.. the whole situation could have been avoided if the student had just used a bit more sense and not been so antagonistic towards the police.
Dont get me wrong.. I definately think the repeated tazing was excessive, ... but so was the students attitude.

I can imagine the situation, the law enforcer tell the guy to leave or whatever.

The guy refused and surely tried to explain their reasons.
The law enforcer put a finger on the guy and this was the point where everything went out of control.

Many people are trained to obey without questions, without to think, and consider reasonable that commands from enforcers must be complied.
To refuse is an option, a personal determination, it is valid when you believe that you are right, and it is still more valid, when your opponent want to subdue you by force.

EDIT: If understand well the video the abusers wanted the guy up, but he did not resist, he just did not collaborate. :hmm::hmm::hmm:

Let's understand the following about the situation: "Police forces are the instrument of the State to keep the monopoly of violence".
Into this frame many enforcers abuse their position.

[VON_CAPO]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

Hypocrite......................

You are running out of limits.
No personal attacks please.

BTW: the video was posted by american people, not by me. And the violence happened in UCLA, not in Teheran or China.

[jumpy]

One of these days the fuzz will tazer some poor shmuck with a pacemaker, for yet another minor offence. See how 'non lethal' they are then.
I take the view that:
1) a tazer is a substitute for a firearm in a situation where the 'offender' is armed but not with a gun etc and the desire is not to intentionally kill the person.
2) it is used to subdue an assailant posing a physical threat to an officer or individual.

It is not used because the officers can't be bothered to get on with the job and take the short route. It is what they get paid to do after all. It is not a tool to further subdue an individual being arrested; in other words used as a cattle prod. Are people now cattle to he herded by tazer wielding faculty/state sponsored goons?

Given my experience of some who call themselves 'police officers' in the UK, I wouldn't trust them with a sharp pencil, let alone something like a tazer or firearm. In most instances the moral and intellectual integrity required to do the job is almost always a good deal short of the mark, if it's even evident at all.

Still at least getting abused at university by private security and public servants will prepare that guy for the rigours of post graduate life
Based on the article the response seems to be grossly over the top, bordering on assault. Best get your 'papers' handy in future peeps, else you'll be off to the gulag without your feet touching the ground. Or at the very least get some rubber pants to avoid potential emarrasment when your universal joint lets go under the influence of 50000 volts.
And some people wonder why ID cards are frowned upon in the UK. I take a very dim view of events like these.

Police forces are the instrument of the State to keep the monopoly of violence
So very true - do as I say, not as I do - can be found at the core of most governments. Shame really.

[sonar732]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

You are running out of limits.
No personal attacks please.

BTW: the video was posted by american people, not by me. And the violence happened in UCLA, not in Teheran or China.

Incite a riot and then hide behind the results...I see this thread being locked again because of your beliefs.

[jumpy]

:rotfl:

Neal, do we have a Forum Tazer? maybe we can zapp these two after they've finnished circling the bag

[HunterICX]

Konalov:

For a minute there I thought you were describing the SA brown shirt thugs from mid 1930's Nazi Germany.

Mmm...dont forget the spanish police are different
you have the Local ones ''Policia Local''
and the ''Guardia Civil'' also known as Dictator Franco private army
the guardia Civil on the other hand are not the ones you should mess with. If you messing around and they stop in front of you...you better pray.

for a nice example the Madrid Bank robber , wich took hostiges
he demanded a motorcycle to escape which he got (Bad choise I would choose a Tank)
the reason why is shown here:

http://rob.com/matt/misc_videos/Car_vids/spainbank.wmv