Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The value is rather symbolic, but still:

Note that he said normalisation of ties is impossible with a Russia under Putin. Which implies the illusion of that without Putin, Russia would be something better. I predict it does not matter that much, but that Russia will not change at all if Putin is gone.

I agree, you tend to fight the enemy you know rather than the one you don't.

There doesn't seem to be any kind of line of succession after Putin. So, even if Putin gets removed or they hold a "special election" to install a new President and cabinet, I don't see the rest of the world welcoming Russia back with open arms.

All that Russia has done is to become the new hermit kingdom, a kind of North North Korea.

[Skybird]

They more and more sound like the language used by North Korea.

FOCUS writes:

Now Russia says it openly: Ukraine is to be wiped out

A post by the Russian state news agency RIA has caused a stir. Titled: "What Russia Should Do Regarding Ukraine." The familiar narrative of a war of liberation by Nazi elites is adopted, but the rhetoric is frighteningly martial even for Kremlin-affiliated media.

"Back in April of last year, we wrote about the inevitability of Ukraine's denazification. We do not need a Nazi, gangster Ukraine, an enemy of Russia and an instrument of the West to destroy Russia": so begins the opinion piece by Russian journalist Timofei Sergeitsev, published by the Russian news agency RIA on Sunday.

Titled "What Russia should do about Ukraine," Sergeitsev repeats the Kremlin's familiar narrative: that Ukraine is run by a Nazi elite, and that Russia must liberate the country and its people. But the rhetoric is frighteningly martial, even for Kremlin-affiliated media.

"Denazification is one of a series of measures aimed at the Nazified mass of the population, which, formally speaking, cannot be punished directly as war criminals," it says, for example. In addition to the elite, significant parts of the population were also "accomplices of National Socialism." Their "just punishment" was only possible by "suffering the inevitable hardship of a just war."

The names of those who collaborated with the Nazi regime should be published after the military operation, the text continues. "Those who are not subject to the death penalty or imprisonment" should work on rebuilding the destroyed infrastructure "as punishment for their Nazi activities."

The name Ukraine "obviously cannot be retained as the name of a fully denazified state entity on the territory liberated from the Nazi regime," Sergeitsev stresses. "Denazification is inevitably also de-Ukrainianization," he writes further.

"The elite gang must be liquidated, its re-education is impossible. The social 'swamp' that actively and passively supports them must go through the hardships of war and digest the experience as a historical lesson and atonement."

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

https://www.focus.de/politik/ausland..._79068916.html


They drift away from reality and any small remains of humaness and civilization, more and more. The victims of their atrocities, those done and those planned, get turned into things by using this abusive language. Thats what the Nazis did with their special way of talking about Jews and Bolshevists. Before you can torture and massacre them and get away with it, you have to dehumanise them. The purpose indeed is to dehumanise the human nature in a person, and turn this human being into a thing, a demonization, an incarnation of evil not having rights in a legal understanding of even just the mere right to live, to exist. Everything that is being done to it, thus is well-deserved, and oneself shines as the knight of justice in shining armour. Cruelty as a civilizational duty. Inflicting pain as a moral value.

More and more the question moves forward: what does it say about a civilization, the West, if we let this barbary happen right on our doorstep while we sit on the fenceline and watch? This is not some other continent, this is not the other side of the globe, the business of neighbouring nations and people there - this is our very own home region, our own civilizational sphere. And still we rationalise and find endless excuses not to intervene and seek the confrontation with the murderous villain. We weep crocodile tears, and in germany we say we prepare our readiness for boycots that - if following this German reasoning - is 1, 2 or more years away. In years, the war will be over this or that way.

I am grim on the Germans here, and know that it affects myself, too, but I admit I have a problem with acepting that our economic interest and comfort still dominates our stand on this issue. Our policy was wrong for over 20 years, for longer!, we supported a political caste that led us into a dead end and into complete paralysis - it would only be fair and just if now we pay the price for this haughtiness and intellectual laziness by suffering economically for the gain of immediately fire up all sanctions and even prepare to militarily intervene on grounds of protecting an ethnic group and culture against extinction by a barbaric slaughterer. Because it is clear what the Russians now openly talk about: genocide, and bringing extinction over all and everythign and everybody that and who is Ukrainian. Is Germany's warm living rooms and industry worth to let this happen? Or that of some other European nations?

We heat with Ukrainian blood. We burn Ukrainian corpses to generate electricity. We accept unimaginable pain and suffering as a price for our own material wellbeing.


I have a problem with this. I take offence from this. Not in my name.


Its time to stop being concerned about Putin's intimidation attempts, and start drumming the drums. Germany should contribute to any military effort - for example, enforcing that no-fly-zone (and yes, I know absolutely what that means) whatever it can: it will be little enough, I fear, but the minimum we can do is not tol stand in the way of full sanctions now.

80 years ago, many people in Europe benefitted from that the Allies did not make these sorts of calculations when they had to decide whether or not they wanted to confront Hitler. In the end, the Germans living in freedom and comfort today also benfit from the willingness of these nations to go the way of sacrifice and hardship in order to stop the Nazi's rule over most of Europe. Germany owes it to the world to now give back a little. Every nation that got freed from the Nazis, owes it as well. We can never again claim that we learn from history if we in fact show that we have not learned from history at all. The Eastern Europeans have it absolutely right when they say that the way to defend Eastern NATO is to stop Putin in the Ukraine. And thats what it is about: not about wiping out Russia, or invading and ruling it, that is impossible, but to fight against and stop by force Russian military aggression in the Ukraine now, and wherever it happens.

We are wimps if we let this Russian announced genocide happen right in viewing range from our warm, tidy houses. And what does history prove happens to wimps? Correct - they get mowed down sooner or later by those who are more courageous and are willing to use their strength mercilessly.

[Jimbuna]

In a speech to the UN Security Council, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky outlines a list of alleged Russian atrocities.

Showing a gruesome video, he alleges civilians were shot in the streets, thrown into wells and crushed by tanks for the "pleasure" of Russian troops.

Scenes in Bucha, near Kyiv - where civilian corpses were strewn in the streets - are being repeated in other parts of the country, he says.

Russia denies any war crimes and its ambassador repeats debunked claims about bodies in Bucha.

UK Foreign Secretary Liz Truss calls for further sanctions on Russian shipping, banks and gold on a visit to Warsaw.

Meanwhile heavy fighting continues in eastern Ukraine, where Russia is now focusing its battles.

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Bucha killings: Satellite image of bodies site contradicts Russian claims https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60981238

[Skybird]

Reports come in from other towns and small cities where the Ukrainians drove the Russian Orks out, where even worse atrocities are being discovered than in Bucha.

Its not just Bucha, that means. Its all over the country wherever the Russians have been, it seems.

[Skybird]

More and more NATO is willing to deliver Ukraine weapons that so far very unavailable. Talk is of tanks, APCs, IFVs, heavy mobile artillery, anti-artillery, anti-ship systems, "very capable" anti air systems (S-300s), and generally of heavy weapons as well as "high value" systems. It became known that Czech Republic has already delivered T-72M4s, and that much more equipment, preferrably of Russian production, is on the way or soon will be on the way.

Even germany is ,moving after it got under serious pressure for having rejected the asked-for Marders and the chencellor'S office being accused of endlessly delaying Ukrainian requests. There are 100 Marders waiting at Rheinmetall for upgrading, these now seem to get delivere after having undergone inspection.



The thing is that the Ukraine did well with ATGMs and ATMs and Manpads when fighiting in the cities in the north, but the sort of warfare that now lies ahead with Russia amassing its ork hordes in the east and preparing to overroll the whole Donbass and Luhansk region and shelling cities from a distance render these short-range weapons less effective. The Ukraine needs different weapons now. Also, military production inside the Ukraine has taken some blows.



Nevertheless the Ukrainians have taken several hundred tanks and APCs from the Russians, many of them functional or being functional again after being repaired.


I wish they would get long range drones that can carry heavy ordnance, not just the Turkish smaller ones, they are helpful and cheap, their eyxes are gopod and their staying time in air is impressive for the price and size, but their dent is single and light. I assume main interest of the ukraine is to be able to close the airspace for the Russian airforce, and to strike at the Russian long range artillery and missiles shelling cities from long distance. Also, Russian fighters firing cruise missiles from inside Russian airspace should be made attackable somehow.

[tmccarthy]

Originally Posted by em2nought

We don't think, we're mostly dumb as rocks. Most Americans, including our sitting President, probably couldn't correctly label more than five foreign countries on a globe. No way they know which countries have been invaded by who, or how often, and why they might be a little touchy about that sort of thing. We need a "pathetic" emoji.

I agree, that's what the powers in Washington are counting on as they destroy this country. I haven't been following the news and international political affairs much lately so I was ignorant when the war started and I'm guilty too. I've been doing a lot of catching the last month and one thing is for sure we are not going to survive if we keep doing things like this.

-Tim

[mapuc]

Will Russia see us-the west as a threat to their existence ??

Markus

[tmccarthy]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I don't know but this is the russian side of views, and i think you are a troll.

My Name is Tim McCarthy, 52 years old, conservative American Patriot, US Army Veteran, volunteered to serve 1991, Combat Engineers, during the Gulf War.

Grandpa & Grandma, Mom & Dad and Me

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Will Russia see us-the west as a threat to their existence ??

Markus

Who cares anymore.


Meanwhile:
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/05/p...ict/index.html

The top US military officer told lawmakers Tuesday that the world is becoming more unstable and the "potential for significant international conflict is increasing, not decreasing."Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen. Mark Milley and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin appeared before the House Armed Services Committee in their first testimony before Congress since Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The two Pentagon leaders said the threats from both Russia and China remain significant, while they defended the US approach to the war and the flow of arms the US is sending to Ukraine.
Milley said that Russia's invasion of Ukraine is "the greatest threat to peace and security of Europe and perhaps the world" in his 42 years serving in the US military, but added it was "heartening" to see the world rally around Ukraine.
"The Russian invasion of Ukraine is threatening to undermine not only European peace and stability but global peace and stability that my parents and a generation of Americans fought so hard to defend," Milley said.

[mapuc]

^ Russia do

Why I asked was you post about we are sending more advanced weapon and weapon system to Ukraine and in the Russian military doctrine it is said that nukes will only be used if their existence is in danger.

But helping Ukraine fighting Russia isn't threat to the Russian existence-That's who I see it.

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by tmccarthy

I believe we/ America are responsible for Ukraine being invaded. Putin basically said either take Ukraine membership in NATO off the table or I will wreck the Ukraine

I totally disagree. If I refuse to say that I wouldn't have your back if someone attacks you it does not make it my fault when the bully beats you up anyways.

"Hey man will you stop me if I try to beat up your friend?"
"We'll some day I might if he gets accepted into our neighborhood safety committee."
"Well then I will actually have to go and cripple him forever because Orthodox God forbid I can't have my victims having powerful friends. And it will be all your fault!"



If Putin attacks Finland will it be our fault too now that they have been considering NATO membership?

[Rockstar]

The speech speaks in part of Poland amd I reckon the same can be said of the direction towards freedom Ukraine seeks . Look at Poland, it was worth it.