NYGM TW 2.2 now available - Page 19

Der Teddy Bar · 10-10-06, 09:51 PM

Twinkle twinkle little start how I wonder how you are...

I am more than willing to look at an 'optional' install of a darker night sky for TW. You others do not panic, I said optional :rotfl:

The night time abilities of my crew really does annoy me, they are just unrealistically good. Problem is, as I see it, if you reduce the night time vision by changing the Visual range factor= to 0.5 (currently 1.4) to get a range somewhere in the vicinity 5000 metres (this is going off memory, may be more or less but it is idicative) then you also get the same for day time visual detection which is just as unrealistic in the reverse.

Some will say what about the Visual light factor= for night time but my initial testing showed it did not function.

value and range that crew detected ship at night.
Visual light factor=0.8 8700 <-- default value
Visual light factor=0.1 8700
Visual light factor=3.0 8700
Visual light factor=100 8400
Visual light factor=800 8400
Visual light factor=3000 8400

Steeltrap · 10-10-06, 11:24 PM

Teddy, thanks for that - I've often wondered how my crew spotted a DD @ 13,000 at 2am!! Night and day visibility the same? That's plain idiotic!!!

Interstingly, in fog I saw a DD only @ 4,500. There was medium (I think) fog, but it DIDN'T seem to make my screen look significantly different. Is this a problem in my setup somewhere, or a common thing (i.e. I've noticed 'light' fog fairly often, but it doesn't seem any different on-screen....)?

As for the DD @ 4,500, I turned to put him at 210 degrees and headed away at 2/3 speed. Heavy seas and he didn't see me. That's an excellent result - would expect not to be found (until radar that is!).

Lastly, as for darkness level at night, I found it depended very much on my monitor. Originally couldn't see ANYTHING. Swapped monitors and now it's really a bit TOO light at night (but better than not even being able to see my watch crew from the bridge station!!). Still waiting on my Samsung 20.1", 1600 x 1280 res, 5ms - will see what that does.

Cheers

lumat83 · 10-11-06, 12:40 AM

I would like to resume the range detections. Can you help me to complete them ?

1/ Visual detections

- Day - clear : 16000 m
- Day - medium fog : 5000 m
- Day - Heavy fog : ?
And the night there are the same values ?

2/ Hydro detections

And with hydro ? What the range of detection ? Between 15000 and 20000m according to the date of the war ?

Der Teddy Bar · 10-11-06, 04:06 AM

Steeltrap,
The sensors values for the AI are for the most part working.

Ego aside, NYGM have done a brilliant job of making the AI Visual work as it should for all weather conditions where sea state and night effects the AI.

For the U-boat AI the issue for me is to keep the day time range at around 15,000 metres in perfect weather. This represents detecting the ships smoke and/or masts over the horizon.

I can get the night time vision way down, but it always drags down the daytime vision.

For example if I change the Precise Range to 5000 (default 15,500) & leave the Maximum Range at 16,000 and use Visual light factor=0.99 then night = 9,500+ day = 12,500.

On top of this we need to consider the visual detection of aircraft. Currently a NYGM U-boat will detect a Hurricane fighter at around 12,000 metres on a perfect day. This is I feel about right.

If we say OK we can live with 12,500+ metres for ships then we probably will have the aircraft being detected back under 7000 metres....

Hopefully someone will attain realistic u-boat daytime ranges of around 15,000 metres and night time ranges of 5000+ metres.

Fender74 · 10-11-06, 04:06 AM

how could i get beery's water mod to work with nygm?
i tried it a few days ago but the water at night had funny colours on it.:hmm:

The Noob · 10-11-06, 07:09 AM

One stupid question: Is NYGM including the Addtional Merchants mod? :hmm:

Der Teddy Bar · 10-11-06, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Noob

One stupid question: Is NYGM including the Addtional Merchants mod? :hmm:

They can be used but may have unusual sinking characteristics.

Laffertytig · 10-24-06, 01:18 PM

couple of questions

are the the bug fixes that are available for the XXI boat in nygm?

on page 1 of this forum there is a large list of ships availabel for download. would it be a simple matter of downloadin and adding them to nygm or would it cause probs?

kylania · 10-24-06, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laffertytig

couple of questions

are the the bug fixes that are available for the XXI boat in nygm?

Unsure, I've never last that long, but the single mission I did in NYGM using an XXI did run into some problems with crew mangement after a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laffertytig

on page 1 of this forum there is a large list of ships availabel for download. would it be a simple matter of downloadin and adding them to nygm or would it cause probs?

Not exactly since the new NYGM 2.2 zones wouldn't be customized for those ships. You can of course use them, but be aware that some funky types of damage models might happen for you.

Der Teddy Bar · 10-24-06, 04:29 PM

To add to kylania's reply. NYGM have ignored the XXI completely & since then we have canibalised it.

The decision to ignore the XXI was originally made when Observer was designing the NYGM Crew Management Mod. You may not be aware, but each compartment does not have its own crew value, rather a compartment has a number of men associated with it and it is the number of men that the fatigue values are associated with.

As you can imagine this leads to all sorts of overlapping where the one fatigue value had to be balanced out so as to be workable with the damage crew of one u-boat type, the engine room of another u-boat type and the stern torpedo room of yet another u-boat type. No need for a 4th u-boat type when it did not see combat.

The canabilism of the XXI was by use of the XXIPumps zone. This zone is the one we use to create the NYGM Anti Humming Bird Mod.

Originally when I wanted to stop the u-boat from hovering I though it would be simply a matter of adding an additional zone to the u-boat, make it have a value that made the u-boat sink. It kind of worked. What would happen is that the u-boat would sink while moving but not while stationary!

I gave up for a few weeks and then had an idea, what if the zones for the u-boat were hard coded and this is how we ended up using the XXIPumps zone with this mod.

The ships can be added with no problems. They will work and they will sink. However, the ships zones either type and/or location in conjunction with the zones.cfg sinking values may result in behaviour that does not gel. So for example they may either sink too easily or too hard.

Without 'rubbishing' anyones work. Ensure that the ship in question has no recent CTD history.

Stiebler · 10-25-06, 03:25 AM

Laffertytig asked:

Quote:

on page 1 of this forum there is a large list of ships availabel for download. would it be a simple matter of downloadin and adding them to nygm or would it cause probs?

Provided that you know how to install them, or the creators give instructions, then there will be no problem about adding these ships to NYGM. But will you ever see them?

New ships added to SH3 can be used either generically, when they substitute another generic ship of the same type, or they can be used as named ship 'classes'.

NYGM increasingly uses ships of fixed classes to achieve the proper balance of ship types. For example Anvart's lighted ships cannot be used generically, they have to be reserved for neutrals. NYGM's convoys are taken from the 'Improved Convoys' mod (I think by Jaeson Jones originally), which are all of fixed ship classes for historical accuracy. The Mediterranean convoys (by Charles901) also use historical types. So new merchant ships are only going to be seen as generic substitutes for a few wandering ships or some two-ship convoys.

To put it another way, new ships are never going to replace ships already in NYGM that are already of a named class.

This isn't so final as it sounds, as NYGM is always willing to consider for inclusion new ships. It's my job to fit them comfortably into the campaign files. However, as Teddy Baer has remarked in this thread, they will show unusual sinking behaviour by NYGM standards.

I personally am unenthusiastic about new ships. There is the practical problem, again mentioned by Teddy Baer above, that they may not have been tested to what we consider acceptable standards. But, just as serious to my mind, is the general uselessness of most of them. SH3 really doesn't need more capital ships (aircraft carriers, battleships, heavy cruisers). How often did a real U-boat encounter them? How often does the average SH3 player want to keep staring at them in harbour? What SH3 needs is more basic merchant ships, because this is what the player does see at sea all the time and it would add variety.

Sadly, there are very few modders making merchant ships. While I admire greatly the skills of those who make any new ship for SH3, it seems - again in my personal opinion only - that Sergbuto, Anvart and AG124 are the only people making useful new ships.

Stiebler.
NYGM Tonnage War Mod - More than a mod; it's an experience!

THE_MASK · 10-25-06, 06:26 AM

BIE mod , the best thing to happen to SH3 since it came out . Cannot wait for more randomness in the future .

Der Teddy Bar · 10-25-06, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sober

BIE mod , the best thing to happen to SH3 since it came out . Cannot wait for more randomness in the future .

Thanks. I am rather chuffed with the result myself.

ctown · 10-25-06, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

. . .each compartment does not have its own crew value, rather a compartment has a number of men associated with it and it is the number of men that the fatigue values are associated with.

Der Teddy Bar,
Could you please clarify this?
Thanks alot, and keep up the good work.

Der Teddy Bar · 10-26-06, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctown

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

. . .each compartment does not have its own crew value, rather a compartment has a number of men associated with it and it is the number of men that the fatigue values are associated with.

Der Teddy Bar,
Could you please clarify this?
Thanks alot, and keep up the good work.

The basic.cfg has the crew fatigue/recovery values under [COMPARTMENT]

NumberOfCrew1=6 means that this is for 6 men & NumberOfCrew2=9 is for 9 men.

So if a compartment has 6 men such as the Stern torpedo room VII & the Electric & Diesel Engines of the Type II then the values associated NumberOfCrew1=6 is applied to all of them.

I don't have the list handy, but this happens for a lot of compartments over the 4 u-boat types. It can be quite difficult trying to balance out the needs of one compartment against another compartment.

I hope this helps.

10-10-06, 11:24 PM	#272
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Teddy, thanks for that - I've often wondered how my crew spotted a DD @ 13,000 at 2am!! Night and day visibility the same? That's plain idiotic!!! Interstingly, in fog I saw a DD only @ 4,500. There was medium (I think) fog, but it DIDN'T seem to make my screen look significantly different. Is this a problem in my setup somewhere, or a common thing (i.e. I've noticed 'light' fog fairly often, but it doesn't seem any different on-screen....)? As for the DD @ 4,500, I turned to put him at 210 degrees and headed away at 2/3 speed. Heavy seas and he didn't see me. That's an excellent result - would expect not to be found (until radar that is!). Lastly, as for darkness level at night, I found it depended very much on my monitor. Originally couldn't see ANYTHING. Swapped monitors and now it's really a bit TOO light at night (but better than not even being able to see my watch crew from the bridge station!!). Still waiting on my Samsung 20.1", 1600 x 1280 res, 5ms - will see what that does. Cheers Last edited by Steeltrap; 10-10-06 at 11:26 PM.

10-11-06, 04:06 AM	#275
Fender74 Helmsman Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Manchester Posts: 102 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 0	how could i get beery's water mod to work with nygm? i tried it a few days ago but the water at night had funny colours on it.:hmm: __________________

10-10-06, 09:51 PM	#271
Der Teddy Bar Blade Master Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,388 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Twinkle twinkle little start how I wonder how you are... I am more than willing to look at an 'optional' install of a darker night sky for TW. You others do not panic, I said optional :rotfl: The night time abilities of my crew really does annoy me, they are just unrealistically good. Problem is, as I see it, if you reduce the night time vision by changing the Visual range factor= to 0.5 (currently 1.4) to get a range somewhere in the vicinity 5000 metres (this is going off memory, may be more or less but it is idicative) then you also get the same for day time visual detection which is just as unrealistic in the reverse. Some will say what about the Visual light factor= for night time but my initial testing showed it did not function. value and range that crew detected ship at night. Visual light factor=0.8 8700 <-- default value Visual light factor=0.1 8700 Visual light factor=3.0 8700 Visual light factor=100 8400 Visual light factor=800 8400 Visual light factor=3000 8400

10-11-06, 12:40 AM	#273
lumat83 Frogman Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 307 Downloads: 121 Uploads: 0	I would like to resume the range detections. Can you help me to complete them ? 1/ Visual detections - Day - clear : 16000 m - Day - medium fog : 5000 m - Day - Heavy fog : ? And the night there are the same values ? 2/ Hydro detections And with hydro ? What the range of detection ? Between 15000 and 20000m according to the date of the war ?

10-11-06, 04:06 AM	#274
Der Teddy Bar Blade Master Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,388 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Steeltrap, The sensors values for the AI are for the most part working. Ego aside, NYGM have done a brilliant job of making the AI Visual work as it should for all weather conditions where sea state and night effects the AI. For the U-boat AI the issue for me is to keep the day time range at around 15,000 metres in perfect weather. This represents detecting the ships smoke and/or masts over the horizon. I can get the night time vision way down, but it always drags down the daytime vision. For example if I change the Precise Range to 5000 (default 15,500) & leave the Maximum Range at 16,000 and use Visual light factor=0.99 then night = 9,500+ day = 12,500. On top of this we need to consider the visual detection of aircraft. Currently a NYGM U-boat will detect a Hurricane fighter at around 12,000 metres on a perfect day. This is I feel about right. If we say OK we can live with 12,500+ metres for ships then we probably will have the aircraft being detected back under 7000 metres.... Hopefully someone will attain realistic u-boat daytime ranges of around 15,000 metres and night time ranges of 5000+ metres.

10-11-06, 07:09 AM	#276
The Noob The Old Man Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: de_dust2 Posts: 1,417 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	One stupid question: Is NYGM including the Addtional Merchants mod? :hmm:

10-24-06, 01:18 PM	#278
Laffertytig Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 757 Downloads: 110 Uploads: 0	couple of questions are the the bug fixes that are available for the XXI boat in nygm? on page 1 of this forum there is a large list of ships availabel for download. would it be a simple matter of downloadin and adding them to nygm or would it cause probs?

10-24-06, 04:29 PM	#280
Der Teddy Bar Blade Master Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,388 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	To add to kylania's reply. NYGM have ignored the XXI completely & since then we have canibalised it. The decision to ignore the XXI was originally made when Observer was designing the NYGM Crew Management Mod. You may not be aware, but each compartment does not have its own crew value, rather a compartment has a number of men associated with it and it is the number of men that the fatigue values are associated with. As you can imagine this leads to all sorts of overlapping where the one fatigue value had to be balanced out so as to be workable with the damage crew of one u-boat type, the engine room of another u-boat type and the stern torpedo room of yet another u-boat type. No need for a 4th u-boat type when it did not see combat. The canabilism of the XXI was by use of the XXIPumps zone. This zone is the one we use to create the NYGM Anti Humming Bird Mod. Originally when I wanted to stop the u-boat from hovering I though it would be simply a matter of adding an additional zone to the u-boat, make it have a value that made the u-boat sink. It kind of worked. What would happen is that the u-boat would sink while moving but not while stationary! I gave up for a few weeks and then had an idea, what if the zones for the u-boat were hard coded and this is how we ended up using the XXIPumps zone with this mod. The ships can be added with no problems. They will work and they will sink. However, the ships zones either type and/or location in conjunction with the zones.cfg sinking values may result in behaviour that does not gel. So for example they may either sink too easily or too hard. Without 'rubbishing' anyones work. Ensure that the ship in question has no recent CTD history.

10-25-06, 06:26 AM	#282
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	BIE mod , the best thing to happen to SH3 since it came out . Cannot wait for more randomness in the future .