Here we go again-Ukraine once again - Page 19

mapuc · 01-22-22, 08:28 AM

The greatest victory in a war is where no shot is fired.

If Putin can get some of his demands without any shot is fired-He has won first round. Here I'm thinking on Ukraines wishes to join NATO

A promise and he can withdraw his troop without having lost his face.

Then there is this problem-the demand on Ukraine is not a stand alone problem Russia also demands demilitarization of former Eastern state like Bulgaria, Romania, Poland and the Baltic States

It can go three way.

1. Putin gets what he wants. 5-6 country leave NATO
2. Putin is promised that Ukraine never will join NATO.
3. Putin gets none of his demands.

Markus

Jimbuna · 01-22-22, 10:55 AM

US 'lethal aid' arrives in Kyiv amid border build-up https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60096261

Aktungbby · 01-22-22, 02:07 PM

/\in today's WSJ: Germany, on the other hand, has frozen weapon shipments including artillery from another NATO nation that 'originated' in Germany... https://sports.yahoo.com/germany-not...060000006.html

Exocet25fr · 01-22-22, 02:28 PM

On 19 and 21 January 2022, the DPR (Donetsk People’s Republic) People’s Militia reported that it had recorded Ukrainian army preparations to carry out sabotage on the territory of the two People’s Republics, and to actively reignite the Donbass conflict.

mapuc · 01-22-22, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exocet25fr

On 19 and 21 January 2022, the DPR (Donetsk People’s Republic) People’s Militia reported that it had recorded Ukrainian army preparations to carry out sabotage on the territory of the two People’s Republics, and to actively reignite the Donbass conflict.

Could it be one of these False flag operation ?

Markus

Skybird · 01-22-22, 04:21 PM

Germany now kindly mulls the delivery of a field hospital. Heartwarming.

Meanwhile the military head of the German navy has to go and clear his post. During a visit in India he stated the obvious, that

1. the Crimean peninsula is in Russian hands and is very unlikely to ever return to the Ukraine. He also said that

2.the Ukraine will not meet the standards that qualify it for NATO membership. Finally he said that

3.what Putin most likelywants more than anything else, is respect, and that repect is cheap to give and could have avoided the situation that now is rerality.

He got fired, more or less. He was early and voluntarily cleared his post.

The German ambassador to Kiev has been called in and been told in clear and angry words that Kievs finds both irritating, unacceptable and dissappointing.

The admiral is right with points 1 and 2, however. His point 3 I think is true, too, but it was unwise to speak it out so frankly.

Edit.

He also said that

4. the chance for a Russian invasion of the Ukraine were nonsense (meaning it will not happen).

Well, could be that it is all bluff. I dont think so, but possible it is.

Vice-Admiral K.-A. Schönbach.

mapuc · 01-22-22, 04:32 PM

^ He's right on point 2-Ukraine is far from ready to join NATO.

Russia has announced a massive Naval manuover almost everywhere

Quote:

All six landing craft have since departed the Baltic and have transited through the English Channel. They are widely believed to be headed for the Black Sea, where they could be used for an expected amphibious assault on Ukraine's Sea of Azov or Black Sea coastline.

https://www.maritime-executive.com/a...ng-140-vessels

Markus

Skybird · 01-22-22, 06:29 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60095459

Quote:

The UK has accused President Putin of plotting to install a pro-Moscow figure to lead Ukraine's government.

The Foreign Office took the unusual step of naming former Ukrainian MP Yevhen Murayev as a potential Kremlin candidate

If you can't break it - bend it.

mapuc · 01-22-22, 06:49 PM

There's a lot of information but also a lot of disinformation regarding the Ukrainian crisis.

What's up and what's down in all this ?

Markus

nikimcbee · 01-23-22, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

There's a lot of information but also a lot of disinformation regarding the Ukrainian crisis.

What's up and what's down in all this ?

Markus

At this point, I'd say pick your biased source and take it with a grain of salt.

When I lived in Ore-gone, the local NPR station would play the VoR (Voice of Russia) in English, that would be a trip to listen to now. lol

Jimbuna · 01-23-22, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Meanwhile the military head of the German navy has to go and clear his post.

What German navy might that be?

Jimbuna · 01-23-22, 10:41 AM

"Europe is now closer to war than it has been since the break up of former Yugoslavia."

Stark words of warning from the senior EU diplomat I've just been speaking to off the record about current tensions with Moscow, over its huge military build-up on the border with Ukraine.

The mood in Brussels is jumpy. There's a real fear that Europe could be spiralling towards its worst security crisis in decades.

But angst isn't wholly focused on the prospect of a long, drawn-out ground war with Russia over Ukraine.

Few here believe Moscow has the military might, never mind the money, or popular support back home for that.

True: the EU warns the Kremlin of "extreme consequences" should it take military action in neighbouring Ukraine. Germany's new Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock was in Kyiv and Moscow saying just that on Monday.

Sweden moved hundreds of troops over the weekend to its strategically important Gotland island - which lies in the Baltic Sea. And Denmark strengthened its presence in the region a few days before that.

The rising tensions have also re-ignited the debate in both Finland and Sweden as to whether they should now join Nato.

But the overarching concern in the West - Washington, Nato, the UK and the EU - is less the possibility of conventional warfare over Ukraine, and far more, that Moscow is seeking to divide and destabilise Europe - shaking up the balance of continental power in the Kremlin's favour.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60030615

mapuc · 01-23-22, 11:07 AM

My standpoint says it will be peace.
Russia and NATO will come to some kind of agreement and everything will calm down.
No invasion of Ukraine.

Markus

Skybird · 01-23-22, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

What German navy might that be?

Ju...! Ju pad poy, ju!

Skybird · 01-23-22, 11:43 AM

For whatever it will ultimately be, the Russians will not ease pressure in this crisis and pull back without having gotten any sort of win, gain, prey, trophy. Just returning to a previous status quo would be an immense loss of face. They will not give up without any sufficient additional gains achieved.

01-22-22, 08:28 AM	#271
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,585 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	The greatest victory in a war is where no shot is fired. If Putin can get some of his demands without any shot is fired-He has won first round. Here I'm thinking on Ukraines wishes to join NATO A promise and he can withdraw his troop without having lost his face. Then there is this problem-the demand on Ukraine is not a stand alone problem Russia also demands demilitarization of former Eastern state like Bulgaria, Romania, Poland and the Baltic States It can go three way. 1. Putin gets what he wants. 5-6 country leave NATO 2. Putin is promised that Ukraine never will join NATO. 3. Putin gets none of his demands. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

01-22-22, 10:55 AM	#272
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,153 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	US 'lethal aid' arrives in Kyiv amid border build-up https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60096261 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-22-22, 02:07 PM	#273
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 30,104 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	/\in today's WSJ: Germany, on the other hand, has frozen weapon shipments including artillery from another NATO nation that 'originated' in Germany... https://sports.yahoo.com/germany-not...060000006.html __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

01-22-22, 02:28 PM	#274
Exocet25fr Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Paris/France Posts: 1,135 Downloads: 255 Uploads: 0	On 19 and 21 January 2022, the DPR (Donetsk People’s Republic) People’s Militia reported that it had recorded Ukrainian army preparations to carry out sabotage on the territory of the two People’s Republics, and to actively reignite the Donbass conflict. __________________ \"Le Triomphant\" listens you !

01-22-22, 04:21 PM	#276
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,737 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Germany now kindly mulls the delivery of a field hospital. Heartwarming. Meanwhile the military head of the German navy has to go and clear his post. During a visit in India he stated the obvious, that 1. the Crimean peninsula is in Russian hands and is very unlikely to ever return to the Ukraine. He also said that 2.the Ukraine will not meet the standards that qualify it for NATO membership. Finally he said that 3.what Putin most likelywants more than anything else, is respect, and that repect is cheap to give and could have avoided the situation that now is rerality. He got fired, more or less. He was early and voluntarily cleared his post. The German ambassador to Kiev has been called in and been told in clear and angry words that Kievs finds both irritating, unacceptable and dissappointing. The admiral is right with points 1 and 2, however. His point 3 I think is true, too, but it was unwise to speak it out so frankly. Edit. He also said that 4. the chance for a Russian invasion of the Ukraine were nonsense (meaning it will not happen). Well, could be that it is all bluff. I dont think so, but possible it is. Vice-Admiral K.-A. Schönbach. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-22-22, 06:49 PM	#279
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,585 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	There's a lot of information but also a lot of disinformation regarding the Ukrainian crisis. What's up and what's down in all this ? Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

01-23-22, 10:41 AM	#282
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,153 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	"Europe is now closer to war than it has been since the break up of former Yugoslavia." Stark words of warning from the senior EU diplomat I've just been speaking to off the record about current tensions with Moscow, over its huge military build-up on the border with Ukraine. The mood in Brussels is jumpy. There's a real fear that Europe could be spiralling towards its worst security crisis in decades. But angst isn't wholly focused on the prospect of a long, drawn-out ground war with Russia over Ukraine. Few here believe Moscow has the military might, never mind the money, or popular support back home for that. True: the EU warns the Kremlin of "extreme consequences" should it take military action in neighbouring Ukraine. Germany's new Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock was in Kyiv and Moscow saying just that on Monday. Sweden moved hundreds of troops over the weekend to its strategically important Gotland island - which lies in the Baltic Sea. And Denmark strengthened its presence in the region a few days before that. The rising tensions have also re-ignited the debate in both Finland and Sweden as to whether they should now join Nato. But the overarching concern in the West - Washington, Nato, the UK and the EU - is less the possibility of conventional warfare over Ukraine, and far more, that Moscow is seeking to divide and destabilise Europe - shaking up the balance of continental power in the Kremlin's favour. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60030615 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

01-23-22, 11:07 AM	#283
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,585 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	My standpoint says it will be peace. Russia and NATO will come to some kind of agreement and everything will calm down. No invasion of Ukraine. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

01-23-22, 11:43 AM	#285
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,737 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	For whatever it will ultimately be, the Russians will not ease pressure in this crisis and pull back without having gotten any sort of win, gain, prey, trophy. Just returning to a previous status quo would be an immense loss of face. They will not give up without any sufficient additional gains achieved. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.